– When we started
getting all that money funneling into the country
after the end of World War II and the Social
Democrats were all like, “Look at us, how good
socialism is working.” – Yes.
– It had nothing to do with them. In fact their policies,
big government policies, wasted all that
money and you know in the 1990s we actually
had to devaluate our currency against the dollar. 30% of everything was lost because the welfare
state they’d built up. (gentle music) – This is “The Rubin Report” and I’m once again, Dave Rubin. Here’s a friendly reminder
to subscribe to our channel by clicking that pesky bell and turning on notifications so that you might, just
might, see our videos and more importantly,
joining me today are two Swedish
podcast superstars and free speech activists. In no order, Aron Flam
and Henrik Jonsson. Welcome to the Rubin Report. – Thank you for having us. – I am glad to have you guys. We have sat down before. – Yes, couple of years ago. – A couple of years ago. Before I do anything else, did I give proper
Swedish pronunciation
of the names there? That was a very American
version, do you– – 10 out of 10.
– Yeah? – I’m fine with however
you say my name. – Henrik–
– I said– – Henrik Jonsson, Jonsson. – Right, so I
purposely did that. So I said, so if you
were saying Aron Flam in perfect Swedish,
how would you say it? – Aron Flam.
– Okay, there we go. – And I said Henrik Jonsson, but I knew it was a
little more off with you. – Yeah, Henrik Jonsson. That’s the way you
say it in Swedish– – Henrik Jonsson.
– Jonsson. But you know, I lived
in London for 10 years so I almost changed
my name to Johnson because the nightmare
of explaining this bizarre
pronunciation just, yeah– – And also, the O with
two dots on top of it. – There’s the O
with the two dots and I knew that they J was
really a Y in our world. But I wanted you to say it first so it sounded a little smoother. Anyway, I’m thrilled
to have you guys here. I’ll preface all
of this by saying something that I told you
guys earlier in the week when I did both of your podcasts which is that bizarrely,
almost impossibly our fifth most-watched
country for this show, “The Rubin Report” is Sweden. So it’s the United States first and then usually Canada and
the UK battle out two and three and then Australia is
four and then Sweden. – Even though we only
have 10 million people. – I have half the
population of Sweden in this room right now.
(Henrik laughs) – Yes. (laughs)
– And some how, whatever it is that
we’re talking about here related to free speech
and the rest of it has really hit a
nerve in Sweden. I also think it’s partly
because I had you on and that show really
just exploded. I’ve since done a couple shows in Sweden with Jordan Peterson. So before we do anything else and I’ll got to you first, just tell my audience a
little bit about yourself, tell me a little
bit about yourself and what you do and
all that good stuff. And then we’ll recap with you and then we’ll
take it from there. – Well my background,
I’m really a businessman. I’m an IT entrepreneur. I built a number of
companies over the years. But about two years
ago I recorded a small YouTube video, well
actually a Facebook video on my phone where
I, out of spite, I was irritated with
the journalistics, journalist
establishment’s incapacity of correctly describing
the difference between dividends and profit
in a private company because we had this big debate about how we didn’t want
commercial companies in the healthcare sector. So I made a video where I say, “Okay listen guys, if
you wanna talk about this “you need to understand
the difference between “those two different things
and I’m gonna tell y’all.” So I posted it on Facebook. Morning after I woke up,
my mailbox was overflowing. I had so many people
just going, “Wow, “you’re so good at
explaining this stuff. “Nobody ever talks about this.” And then I started
making videos. Now I runt the largest
politically-minded YouTube channel in Sweden. – Should I ask what
level of hate you got just by putting out a
video about dividends (Henrik laughs)
and health insurance in the market? – Well, you know that was
a sort of neutral video because it was on taxation. But let’s put it this way– – Taxation often is not neutral, at least in this country. Oh and maybe it’s a
little more neutral for you guys because
you’ve been numbed into it or something like that. – Well, taxation
is like are for us. – Right, (laughs) exactly.
(Henrik laughs) But did you get a lotta hate? Or I guess you didn’t? – Initially very little because the situation
we have back home is like the left does
not follow people like me because I’m, you know, I
have a business background. They think, “Well,
he’s a capitalist pig “so let’s not
listen to this guy.” – Yeah.
– But as my channel grew and now I have about
600,000 people a month watching my videos,
which is more than most of the
national newspapers have so then I become a problem. So now I’m getting
quite a bit of flac just, you know, just
being on your show is probably gonna push
a few people’s buttons. – We’re gonna
quadruple your flac (Henrik laughs)
by the end of today. Aron I, obviously I know a
little more about your story. But for the people that
did not see our first into. – Well, as they should know because they should have
watched every episode of your show–
– I assume most of them have. – I’m a Swedish comedian
and then after a while I realized I can’t
do my jokes any more, my beautiful constructed
child pornography jokes. (Dave laughs)
– And then I had to, well we don’t exactly have
free speech in Sweden. We got it in ’94 from the EU. That’s sort of, eh, but I would like to
have some in Sweden. So I’ve been working at
that since last we met and since we met
last I’ve been doing very little comedy,
although I have done some comedy because–
– Yeah, you did some stand up in L.A. just a couple days ago. – Yes, at the L.A. Improv
and it went quite well. They loved my abortion jokes and since last we met,
because at the point when we met I wanted
to find the route cause of the craziness
that is going on in the Western world right now. And you’ve written
a book about it and I just finished and
published my book about it. Unfortunately in
Swedish, but I’ll get you an English version. – I want the English version because not only do
I not speak Swedish but your book, oh we shoulda
had it on the table here. I’ll have my guys grab it. It’s about how many pages? Almost 500 pages, right? And this thing is dense. I mean, you could if you
whacked somebody with this thing it’s like a brick. – Yes, I want–
– You can take out– – I want everything I do to be able to be used
in multiple ways. (Dave laughs)
But no, it’s called, “This is a Swedish Tiger”
and basically it’s, I got proof that the
socialists and the Islamists have pretty much
been working together since the end of World War II and the socialists
didn’t turn in ’43 but they were on Hitler’s
side until the end. And after the war they sort of
swept that under the carpet, found alliances,
because the Islamists or what turned, morphed
into the Islamists, were on Hitler’s side as well and they continued
that alliance. And I think we’re
seeing the end point of that cooperation now. – [Dave] So it’s a comedy? – Well, it’s a very dark comedy.
(Dave laughs) – Yeah exactly. Like almost
everything these days. So you start doing video pod, did you start doing video first? – Video right away.
– All on video. So you start doing the video and just by talking
about these things my sense from what’s
going on in Sweden is that there’s just a lot of
people due to cultural reasons that hopefully you
guys can explain, just don’t really say what
they’re thinking enough. – Yes.
– And then it makes guys like you very unique. A comedian, it’s one
thing to be doing it but a guy from a
business background. Were you shocked–
– Yes. – At what was happening?
– Yes I was. – Yeah.
– Listen, I think part of the reason
that your show is popular in
Sweden is our nation is like the canary
in the coal mine and people are so penned up because we have a highly, like a fiercely
egalitarian culture. It’s very conformist, so
it’s incredibly threatening to break the mold, but
there’s this pent up need of you know, seriously engaging
in open conversation about a lot of issues that are, well they put the lid on those. And I think that’s what
you’re picking up on when you went there. And I think that is why once
I started making my videos it just exploded, because
there were so many people, “Wow, how do you dare
say these things?” – What were the first
couple type o’ things that you were talking about? – Well, here’s where Aron
and I kind of connect because I wanted to
debunk the idea that the Social Democratic rule which has been running Sweden for the better part of
the last hundred years, they took credit for the
financial miracle that we had. Basically, Sweden rose
from a rather poor agrarian economy
into the per capita wealthiest country on Earth
over a couple of decades. But that was mainly due,
and if you ask economists they will know this, but
nobody speaks about it, the reason that
happened was because we did not take a stand
against the Nazis in the war. So we actually sold them
iron ore and granite and after the war we were also the only intact manufacturing, industrialized manufacturing
nation in Europe so we exported
everything to everyone and that’s how we became rich. – So you were acting
like capitalists sort of on the DL,
on the down low, but in effect– – I’d say no (murmurs)
the worst brand of crony capitalism I would say. – Yeah, what about you? You were doing stand up first but what were the issues first that you were talking about that you realized
shouldn’t be talked about? – Well–
– Or that people didn’t want you to talk about?
– I as a comedian I know what cultural
taboos we have so I just made a
list and, you know, started doing jokes on
every cultural taboo because that was my job. So I went through, you
know, the usual shock thing you can always do
a pedophilia joke because, you know,
or a fisting joke. It’s funny.
(participants laugh) But then I started drugs– – Aron–
– and mariajuana– – This is a family show.
(Aron laughs) – And then I went to mariajuana but I’d never
experienced as much hate as when I started my
campaign to crush socialism. Because in their
minds that’s just the most taboo thing
you could ever say. That’s the entire
system, you know? You’re basically
shitting where you eat. – So when you say you don’t
have free speech in Sweden, what does that
actually mean as– – Well, you are free to
say whatever you want as long a no one takes
offense or gets insulted. – Because what’s gonna happen if someone takes offense
or gets insulted? ‘Coz we’re now, we seem–
– Because– – to be importing this idea. – Yes, because then
their feelings are hurt. If you want to have a
socialist welfare state, everyone has to be
like cogs in the wheel so that’s why you need
conformism and collectivism and a culture of silence. And that is why
they get so annoyed when he speaks out,
because he’s breaking the culture of silence. And cultures of silence are
about maintaining the real because as long as
everyone has the same lie then that’s reality. But if someone says,
“Wait a minute, “this might not be
exactly the case.” Like for instance,
Henrik got burglarized in Malmo where he lives. I don’t know if he told you that story?
– Yes, I do wanna talk about that.
– Yeah. And when he talks about that he breaks the culture of silence that Sweden is
peaceful, it is ordered, everything works, no one
needs a gun for self defense because the police or the state will take care of everything. And remarkably enough,
that’s the reason why my book, by
the way, is called, “This is a Swedish Tiger”
because tiger in Swedish means both the apex
predator and shut up. – Huh.
– So during the Second World War there
was a campaign in Sweden launched by the
government that said, “Be a Swedish tiger” which means be silent but deadly. – It’s very clever and very Orwellian campaign.
– Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. – That is extremely Orwellian. – I’d like to add two
things what you just said, I mean formally
you’re allowed to say anything you want in Sweden. – Yeah, yeah.
– But the consequences of doing so can be
very, very severe and people will hate
you and they will sometimes go after
your employer. They will try to make it
impossible for you to work. So it is a culture of silence
and it’s very aggressive, but we never speak of it. The other thing–
– (laughs) Which is what a culture of silence is.
(Henrik laughs) (Dave murmurs)
Don’t mention the culture of silence.
(Henrik laughs) – Yeah, the but wasn’t
necessary there. Also we are doing this, so you know. (laughs) – But the second thing
that I think is important to mention there, is like the establishment media of
Sweden, sort of you know, the news organizations
and so forth they have been losing
a lot of their revenue to the digital tech giants
like Google and Facebook and so forth and are
very unhappy about that. So they’ve been
pushing the government to intervene with
what they’re doing under the guise of,
“Well, you know, “it’s promoting
extremism or whatever. “People are writing
nasty things on Facebook” and they pushed it all the
way to the top government so the Minister of Justice
actually had a meeting with Google and
Facebook, and this is, you can read this in the papers. I can send you links for this. Where he actually told
them, “Well of course “there’s freedom of
speech and it’s great “that you’re private companies “and private companies
make their own decisions.” Isn’t that sort of putting like a virtual gun–
– Yeah yeah. – Against your back.
– You’re private for now. – “We think you should clean up “some of the stuff
on your platforms “otherwise we might have to
move forward with regulation.” Now I wouldn’t wanna be the
President of Facebook Sweden having to answer
to an American CEO you know, tell them
that, “I’m the guy “that made ’em
regulate our company.” – So what type of slurs have
been thrown at you guys? ‘Cause that seems to be
what it boils down to. You haven’t been dragged
off to jail, right? So when we talk about
free speech it’s not they haven’t jailed you yet. But what type of slurs
are they throwing at you to make sure that
it perhaps hampers some of your businesses? Or hampers your ability to
perform at the clubs or– – Well five or six days
ago they called us whores. – Venmo whores.
– Venmo whores. – Venmo whores, who’s
they in this case? – Well that would be,
this was actually a text written by a rather famous
establishment journalist in one of the biggest
national papers. – Right.
– Who had a big issue– – So in effect he works
for a state-run paper but because–
– No, no, here’s the thing. – Yeah.
– So they call these papers and media outlets free media.
– Right. – But they’re all on the
take, as you would call it. Or subsidized as we
would call it. (laughs) – This guy was actually
on Swedish radio so I have the recording
downloaded where he– – Yeah, that’s state
radio actually, yeah. – That’s state, yeah.
– So okay, so– – But that–
– So someone on state radio, he’s funded by the state to
get his message out there, called you guys,
independent people, putting stuff up on YouTube– – He likened us to prostitutes. – You guys are venmo whore.
– Yeah. – This is grifter, right? This is the one that
gets thrown at us in America all the time.
– Right. If you tried it, you know? It’s like, “If I was grifting “I would be doing the
other thing” right? What would be–
– Right. – If we were grifters
what would be the easiest thing to do? – Work for MPR? (laughs)
– (laughs) Exactly, work for MPR, but
into socialism, buy into intersectionality.
– Yeah, and that’s what they want from you.
– What a great great grift. Yeah.
– They want to turn you into us.
– Yeah. Now these– – As I told you last time.
– Okay. – We want you to assimilate. – Okay, so that’s exactly
where I wanted to go with this because if you listen to
our socialist democrats or democratic socialists, or whatever the hell
they are these days. I keep saying they’re gonna drop the democrat part soon enough, what they always say is, “We
should be more like Sweden.” AOC says this, Bernie says this. I doubt that AOC has
ever been to Sweden. Perhaps Bernie has
been to Sweden. But they say the Nordic
countries usually but it’s specifically, “We
should be more like Sweden.” Now you guys have
10 million people, we have 350 million people. We have people from
every walk of life, from every corner of the Earth. You guys mainly were
a homogenous society until the last couple o’ years. There’s all sorts of
reasons that that analogy doesn’t quite make sense. But when you hear that,
“America should be “more like Sweden”
what does that– – Nothing pushes my buttons
(Dave laughs) then when I hear stuff
like that, you know? This comes out of the mouth
of what, Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren? Let’s clear this up
once and for all. Sweden was never a
socialist country in the sense that the
Eastern block was, you know, Soviet
Union and so forth. When Sweden became wealthy, this was during the
last part of the 1800s we had a bunch of
laissez-faire reforms done. So that’s when we started a transformation
to industrialize. We were actually quite
late to the game. It was these, you know,
free market reforms. – When you got
the government out laissez-faire–
– Yes. – Suddenly the economy
starts booming, okay. – Johan August Gripenstedt
is the name of the guy that was very forward-thinking that made these reforms possible and then things started
getting better after that. The other thing you
need to remember is that when we started
getting all that money funneling into the country after the end of World War II and the Social Democrats
were all like, “Look at us. “How good socialism is working.” – Yes.
– And it had nothing to do with them. In fact, their policies,
big government policies, wasted all that
money and you know, in the 1990s we actually had
to devaluate our currency against the dollar. 30% of everything was lost
because of the welfare state they built up. So if you hear Bernie
Sanders or Warren say stuff like, “We need
to be more like Sweden” well, the part they’re missing is that what was
good about Sweden was free-market oriented. What was bad about
Sweden, we turned out into a decent country
in spite of socialism, not because of. – Can you add to that? That was a pretty–
– I can confirm– – concise explanation.
– that is true. and you can look it
up, it’s factual, yes. – Yeah, so when
you guys hear that and doing what you’re
doing, I mean as you said, it just makes your
head spin sort of. You feel like you’re
gonna smack somebody. – Well I love my job.
(Dave chuckles) I really do. Because I get to piss people off and I believe what
Larry David once said that “If you have the
opportunity to annoy someone “you should take it.” (laughs)
– Yeah. (laughs) – Well you are doing that. – Yeah you’re doing
just fine there. But do you think part
of the issue here is that the exterior of
Sweden looks a certain way. So, for example I had two
trips to Sweden, to Stockholm, and I was only in Stockholm
so what I’m seeing is a very snapshot version. But just from walking
around Stockholm or maybe what we
see in the media if, or in the movies if they
show someone from Sweden they’re always very tall,
they look very good. You know, they’re
blonde like you and they’re in nice jackets. And what I notice from
walking around Stockholm was it looked like
everyone bought their clothes that morning. Everyone looked fantastic.
(Henrik laughs) Everything was clean,
the streets were clean, all these things. Now I get it, it’s a very small
little micro version of this but is that part of the problem, that the veneer of this
somehow is still selling well? Or something like that
outside of your borders? – Absolutely, I think it’s
a sort of a Potemkin village if you know what that is?
– Yeah, yeah. – It’s a backdrop and behind it, well, it reminds me
of Hollywood that way. – Yeah, you’re in
the right town. – Yeah, yeah, if you look
at it in front it looks good but if you look behind
the curtain you, but you don’t hide
your homeless. We would hide them.
– Yeah. – Now we can’t afford
to hide them any more. – Well we can’t
hide them any more because you’re
here in California where they’re pretty
much everywhere. – They are, I have noticed.
– Yeah. – No, but I think just
like not speaking out against things you might
see as wrong or incorrect, it is very important that
everything looks good if you are to have
a culture of silence and a quasi-socialist state. – How are you guys able to gauge how much effect
you’re actually having on the the average Swede? – I’d say judging by the
reactions we’re getting from our enemies (chuckles)
(Aron laughs) things are going very well.
– Yeah. – They get very upset, you know? Funnily enough, the
extreme left people they usually do not touch me. It is the social liberals
who are, you know, supposed to be center-right. – Can you explain a little bit what the
differentiation there is for an American perspective? ‘Cause I think
Americans hear that, the social liberals
and the far left. That sounds sort of
like the same thing. – Of course, yes. Liberal here means a lefty whereas in Europe
the word liberal is moving that direction
in Europe as well, but it still means
more like the classical Austrian liberalism.
– Yeah, yeah. I’m a European liberal.
– Yeah. – Right, something like that. – Perfect, me too. I would use the word
fiscally conservative but socially liberal
to describe myself. So that’s where most of
the attacks are coming from on my end, you know? From journalist, you
know people of platform, establishment media platforms. They will be very upset
and they will find a single word that they
don’t like in a sentence, pull it out and start a
tweet storm, you know? They will tell you things like, “You’re dangerous, you’re
populistic, alarmist. “You’re not taking
responsibility for
what kind of people “you take on to your show.” And you know, going
back to this thing with the canary in the coal
mine, this is the thing because what all of these
people have been doing is working so very hard
at guiding the population to the correct moral standpoint at the end of
whatever they produce. And you don’t do that, you
bring somebody else on the show and say, “Okay, this is a
completely different perspective “and I’m not going
to attack you. “I don’t wanna fight you. “I want to explore your idea “and just see what
I make of it.” They hate it. They do not want it. – Yeah, is there
anyone politically that is echoing some
of your sentiments about what’s
happening in Sweden? – Well, Hanif Bali does
the job from time to time when his party doesn’t
try to reign him in. – Which party is he part of? – He’s part of
the Moderate Party which–
– Which is right wing. That would be, by
American standards that would be like– – Ultra leftists.
(Henrik murmurs) – I know, right?
(Aron laughs) Well, like what type of
policies would they have? Just ’cause I’m
trying to get a map. – Lower taxes, more
personal responsibility and individual choice. They’re trying to
get it in there but– – So he’d basically be a
conservative or libertarian? – Light version of
the conservative. – Yeah, yeah.
– Socially, socially– – I think they call themselves
liberal conservatives. – Liberal conservatives.
– Yes. – That sort of, that
jives with me I suppose. So I told you guys that
when I was in Stockholm for the two shows
with Jordan Peterson and I saw you there, that
they really stuck out. Well first off I was
particularly excited about them because I knew that
this small country was my fifth
most-watched country and I was like, “What the
hell’s goin’ on here?” So I sorta, and Jordan also knew that a huge percentage of
his viewership was from there so we both sorta had that date, that first Stockholm
date in our minds that something
special’s happening. The shows were incredible. The first show sold out
literally in a minute which is why we added
the second show. The audiences were phenomenal,
correct me if I’m wrong. – You were so popular
there was a black market trading in tickets
to your shows. – I would like to say
that it was Jordan that was very popular,
(Henrik laughs) so just for the record. But (claps hands) the
thing that truly struck me was that after the show we
would do our meet and greets and Jordan would meet with
hundreds of people mind. We would just quickly
sell them basically right before the show
so I’d usually get you know, 30 or 40 people
’cause we have do it very quick. But at the two
Stockholm shows we had about 80 or 100 people. We jammed all of these
people into a small room. We’re sitting there and it felt like something memorable to me. It felt like everyone
in that room– – They had prepared
questions for you. – Everyone in that–
– Not Jordan, they had prepared for you. – Everyone in that room
had something written down or something on their phone or something they
wanted to hand to me or a book that I should
read or a story or something and it was so moving to me,
that I think I said to you, “Is there a bar around
here we can go to?” And we took everybody
and we went to a bar and we hung out for
hours and met some– – Until they closed. – Until they closed,
they kicked us out and I met some of the
Swedish intellectuals that you guys hang out
with, all these people. Anyway, I’m not even
asking a question here, suffice to say that it was so
obvious to me that something is going on there.
– Well you could– – It was truly moving. – Apart from having
a disproportionate
amount of viewers for such a small
country, of your show and Jordan’s videos, well you caused quite a splash. – Oh, (laughs) can you
say what happened, yeah? – Our Minister of
Foreign Affairs went out publicly and
said, “Jordan Peterson “is a bug and should crawl back “under the rock he came from.” – Yes, which I was
able to quote her at the beginning of the show and it got quite a laugh.
(Henrik laughs) Everyone basically screamed
the end of the joke before I said it.
(Henrik laughs) – Well yes, she just
retired thank god. – You can’t buy PR like that. – Yeah, but whadda you
make of that sorta thing? So when you know the ideas
that Jordan sets forth? – So let me just explain. Our Minister of Foreign
Affairs, she goes to Iran. She goes to all these places and does business,
as one should, with dictators or
whatever, or not. So she meets truly horrible
people in her work. – Do you mean even worse
than Jordan Peterson? – And that’s what’s so funny.
(Henrik laughs) I mean, this is just a Canadian
professor of psychology who tells people
to make their beds in the morning. (laughs)
(Dave laughs) And she’s never voiced
anything negative about the Iranian
regime, or yeah. So it’s quite… – You know it’s
funny, or not funny I suppose depressing
at a certain level that she said that
after our first show. So then I think we
had a day or two away. I think maybe we were in
Copenhagen or somewhere else and I remember thinking
when we were coming back that, you know, we’re going
through security again, we’re going through
the border again, and I remember thinking,
we just saw this story. I think we saw it on the plane what the Foreign Minister said and I thought, “Why wouldn’t
they stop us at the border “or harass him or whatever?” Now they didn’t, but
that sorta thing. It’s like we can sorta
joke about it now and it sounds so ridiculous but there is another
human element to it that is pretty scary.
– But you came in and just coming in is
breaking a culture of silence. So they have to do something. They have to tell
their listeners, “Don’t listen to these guys. “They are here to
destroy us” you know? – And I mean the
story you’re telling about how all these people had written down
questions for you, to me that’s actually,
it’s a beautiful thing that it almost brings
tears to my eyes. – Oh, it literally
almost brought tears to my eyes that night. – Because, you know,
I get all these emails from young guys who want to
begin exploring their lives and they are thirsty
for, you know, an open discussion and the
fact that Margot Wallstrom, you know the minister
that told Jordan “To crawl under a rock”, that
is like the perfect example of the culture of
silence that we have. Because the fact that he just
showed up in Sweden, you know? They had to make a stand
that this is, “What this man “is saying is not
part of the narrative “that we want here.”
– Yes. – Can you talk about
how this is related to sort of how men are treated or at least talked
about in Sweden? Because you guys have
the first, supposedly, self-proclaimed feminist
government, right? – Yes.
– That’s what even though– – As you can tell
when they visited Iran they all wore niqabs.
(Dave laughs) So very feminist indeed. – Yeah, very feminist indeed. But the reason I mention that is because, as I said earlier,
I did both of your podcasts which we’ll link to below
because I want people to see you guys as hosts. But I mentioned the
story to both of you of how the day of the Stockholm
shows it was cold out, I wanted to get a hat
and I went into H&M which is your, is
that your great, well H&M–
– It’s like Gap here. – Ikea are your
greatest exports. And I went into H&M and I
was on line to buy the hat and the guy in front
of me, young guy, probably 20, 21 years
old says to the cashier, “This is the first
suit I’ve ever bought.” He was speaking in English, “The first suit I’ve ever bought “and I’m going to see this
Jordan Peterson show tonight.” And then the cashier
says, “I’m going to see “the Jordan Peterson
show tonight.” So I tapped the guy
on the shoulder, I turned around and
said, “I’m going to see “the Jordan Peterson show”
and he knew who I was. And I just thought it was
such an incredible moment, like this young
kid who literally was buying the first
suit of his life to, as you just said, listen to a
Canadian psychology professor tell him to sit up straight
with his shoulders back. So can you talk a little
bit about what’s happening with either young
people or men or both or some combination of that?
– Well we’ve had a, there’s a problem with language because what I think they’re
trying to do in Sweden, have been trying
for my entire life is they’re trying to
accomplish gender equity. And that’s not the same thing as equality of the sexes, right? – ‘Cause you guys have
equality of the sexes in many senses, right? – That depends on what
you mean with equality. – What’s your–
– Men and women have the same opportunities. In some cases women even
have more opportunities economically when it
comes to subsidies for being pregnant, for
instance, or taking– – The results of the free–
– maternity leave. – The results of
the free choices that women make are though
considered a problem– – Yes.
– Right, so this is the, this is the interesting, wait
but just to be clear though ’cause what part of
what I said did– – No, no, no, no. But when you go
for gender equity what you want is, well
you want a facade, right? You want 50/50%. – Yeah.
– 50% here and 50% there men and women. It doesn’t matter if
they’re competent, if they want to work there. And we have government
bodies regulating this and trying to, and we do this
from kindergarten and upwards. We encourage the girls
to take up more space and be less like girls,
and we encourage the boys to close inwards and not
take up as much space. So basically what
they’re trying to do is they’re trying
to make these kids go against their biology or
whatever they feel is right because they want
it to look perfect. – So to be clear it’s not just– – And equal or equitous.
– It’s not just, right. It’s not just you know,
“You should act this way” but it ends up working
into what jobs they choose because Jordan mentioned
this several times there and a lotta people
talk about this that because you guys have
had equality for so long meaning you could
do whatever you want as a man or a women,
it turned out that yes, women tend to be nurses more, and men turned out
to be engineers more because women generally are
more interested in people and men happen to be more
interested in things. That’s just the
nature of reality. But I think–
– The gender paradox. – I think this is what
you were getting to, the social justice word is
don’t like that experiment. They don’t like the
experiment of freedom. – Jordan was on a
talk show in Sweden where he was addressing
this very topic and he basically
said, “Well you know, “science supports that
this is the way it happens “in a free country where
people can choose.” And we had one of the
top-level politicians there and she was, “Well
I don’t agree with that.” And you know I was just,
(Dave laughs) I actually made an episode
on my show about that because I’m like, “This man
just said ‘Science says this.’ “‘I don’t agree with it.'” Okay, so what are
we now, mystics? – So what you’re saying is–
– Well we are, yeah. – Yeah, so that thing though, the politician says that,
“I don’t agree with it. “I don’t agree with
what science says, “I don’t agree with
what biology says.” We all know that men
and women are different it doesn’t make either
sex better than the other it’s just an is.
– No. – But when you hear
that response you think most people just swallow
that and take it? – I think most people
do that because we’re a fiercely egalitarian,
very conformist people. So they have been
trained for very long to just accept that
form of communication. Now we have, you know,
a government body the Ministry of Equality,
and I mean just the name sounds so totalitarian I
can’t, you know it’s like– – “Nineteen Eighty-Four” event. – Totally, and they
have the authority to look at all companies and
other governmental bodies to achieve the 50/50.
– Kindergartens, schools, universities, everything. Everything has to be
gender mainstreamed. – And is all run
by women. (laughs) There are only women
working at the– – So right, so when
you do this then as a private businessman,
how does that affect you? – You know, funny thing is like when my YouTube channel
started taking off my business partner he was
like, “Okay, what’s happening, “what’s going on? “This might actually hurt
our business interests.” And I said, “Well you
know, if we start seeing “some disasters
happening because of
what I’m saying online “we’ll have a conversation
and say, ‘Okay.'” And so we tried it for a while, turns out business is booming because now people
are finding me just because they see
my videos and, “I wanna “work with your company.” So even though we have
all these enemies now, those are people I wouldn’t wanna work with
anyway. (chuckles) – Right, but what about
on the hiring side though? I mean, when you’re
actually hiring people do you have to look at those
immutable characteristics to figure out who
you’re gonna hire? – Well I don’t handle the
recruiting any more personally so I’ve kind of removed myself,
my face, from that a bit. I don’t think it’s
much of a problem because Sweden has
a general problem when it comes to
recruiting talented people, we don’t have enough of them. We have a lot of
people that are going, you know, subsidies and various
government programs, loads. But I’m in IT recruiting
very smart IT professionals. That’s generally very difficult. Although, I find I have
quite a few of them, you know, these software guys
that are quite libertarian. So no, I don’t see it as
a great problem, you know? Here’s another thing
I’d like to mention, you’re not allowed to ask
people anything you want when you hire them in Sweden. So when I first
started out my company I would ask people,
“Are you in any unions “because I don’t want
any unionized people
in my companies.” And then my HR eventually,
“You gotta stop saying “that Henrik, it’s illegal. “You cannot ask them
if they’re unionized.” So now we have a text
in when we recruit which is kind of
like, “Are you a very “collectivistically-minded
person? “This might not be
the place for you.” – Yeah geez, I mean
this is happening everywhere now, so nothing sort of surprises.
– No, but I think it does hurt kids
because if you raise entire generations of girls telling them that
they are beautiful and weak and strong at the
same time and can do no wrong, well you’re turning them into
sexist fascists basically and you’re telling all the boys that they are inherently evil, and we’ve been doing
this for a long time now. – So is that the part
that’s particularly perverse about this? You take a society,
you make them equal. Then at the same
time because you know that humans are gonna
have individual emotions you keep telling the
males that they’re evil despite the fact
that you in Sweden have done more for equality
than virtually anybody. So it’s really like
it’s just never enough, because actually
as you guys know what they want is
not really equality, it’s some sort of–
– No, no. – Conformity is what they want. – And I’ve been
trying to tell them that this would be as if
someone came out as gay and you told them, “No,
suppress that” right? Because that’s what
you’re telling the boys. Like, “Oh, you feel
the need the need “to run around and play
football, suppress it.” – “You’re a smart girl.”
– And you’re telling the girls like, “You’re playing “with dolls, bad girl. “Go out and play football.” – Now before the haters
get in here and say, “Oh Aron Flam doesn’t want
boys to play with Barbies” you actually are
perfectly okay if they– – I never played football. I was not the type.
(Dave laughs) – And you had the huge Barbie collection.
(Henrik laughs) – Well.
– Which for a man of your age is a bit much now. – (laughs) I was into He-Man
and Star Wars figurines. Or action–
– Action figures. – Yes, you call them
that to make them sound more manly, but
they’re basically dolls. – I’ll show you my collection when we’re outta here.
(Henrik laughs) All right let’s shift a bit
because you mentioned actually that you lived and I
believe you’re moving, if I can say that–
– Yes. In Malmo, now we here
a lot about Malmo on a certain side
of the internet where they report
on a lot of bombings and stabbings and all
these weird things coming outta Malmo. Now we only hear of
this from sort of right, what I would say are
not just center right but more right-leaning
things, outlets in America. And then anyone
that reports on them says that they’re racist
and they’re bigoted and the rest of it. You live in Malmo,
what happened in Malmo? And just tell me a little bit
about the history of Malmo before anything else. – Malmo, it’s in the
deep south of Sweden. So it’s a port city
and this is where basically everyone
that’s coming to Sweden by foot or by car, they
will enter across a bridge and they come into Malmo so we have a very large
number of refugees and so forth from
the crisis of 2015. And Malmo, it’s always been
a rather poor city, you know? They used to build
big ships there and then in the 1980s
that all collapsed and everyone was an
alcoholic for a while. Then it kind of
became slightly better but it’s a loss-making city and it’s been run by
socialists for you know, better part of the
last hundred years. Now over time, crime in Malmo
started to rise uncontrollably and again, coming back to
the same topic all the time, this concept of being quiet
about what is happening because it’s considered
rude to mention the fact that well, we
might have a drug war going on in this city, and
that’s what we have right now. So people are working
very hard at putting out different kind of
representations, statistical representations
saying, “everything is fine” but you know, it’s
getting harder and harder for them to do that
because everyone knows that we did not use
to have weekly bombs going off in the city
center, for one thing. And if I can, I’d like
to sort of tie this back to a personal experience. You mentioned that time
that I was burglarized and what’s really
interesting about that story is not so much the fact
that I was burglarized but rather the reaction
I got from the media when I wrote about this in the paper.
– And from the police when you asked them, “What
can I do about this?” So please, go on.
– Yeah, this is an incredible story,
please tell it. – I’ll just make it
really short you know. I wake up in the
middle of the night, somebody’s trying to
break into our house. I carry my twin girls upstairs, arm myself with a hammer
because I didn’t have a gun at home. Hammer, I’m on the
phone with the police. They’re trying to force
entry through our front door and the police are
saying, “Be quiet. “Don’t make your presence known, “we’ll be there shortly.” Then my neighbor comes home, we have a shared walkway,
he scared them off by turning on the
lights so they got away. 30 minutes later I’m
giving my testimony, is that what you say?
– Mm-hm. – Statement to the police
sitting in my kitchen and I ask him at the
end of the interview, it’s like, “So what can
I do to protect myself “and my family from this
ever happening again?” And literally he does
this, “(sighs) Seriously? “Don’t live in this city. “It is out of control,
we cannot control it.” This was in 2007, you know? That year I think
I believe I paid about 12 million
in taxes and I live in a fashionable part of town as I expect a better answer.
– I’ve been to his penthouse. It’s very nice, yes, yeah.
– Yeah. – That’s where I
interviewed you. – Yeah.
(Dave laughs) – I expect a better
answer by the police than them telling me to leave. So I wrote an
editorial about this in Sweden’s largest
conservative newspaper and told the story
about the, basically what the policeman told
me which is (murmurs) that this is the
really shocking part. The reaction by the local
newspaper in Malmo was, they didn’t speak to me, they spoke to the paper
that took my editorial and said, “This is
completely unacceptable. “What poor taste and
journalistic unprofessionalism “that you should publish
an alarmist, populistic “text like this which
is drawing the attention “from the people in need. “This is a wealthy capitalist. “He’s spoiled and you should
not listen to this alarmism.” And that really shocked me
because I had journalists attacking me on Facebook,
“Why do you write that? “Why do you put a text
like that out there?” And this was just when I was
starting my YouTube channel so this–
– And then you got called racist and the
rest of it, right? All that stuff.
– Racist, fascist. – Goes without saying.
– Bigoted. Right-wing, nut job, you know. They didn’t, they had to start using–
– White supremacist. – The word whore.
– Yeah, yeah, yeah. – But so all this being said, you stayed in Malmo for
two years basically. – Well he’s not Jewish. (laughs) – Yeah (laughs) right.
(Henrik laughs) So we’ll get to that
(Aron laughs) in just a second. But you stayed? – Yeah, we stayed. The crime situation
has escalated so when we finally, the straw
that broke the camel’s back was this summer, and I
made a video about this. It was so tragic because
these drug cartels are basically fighting
it out in Malmo. They shot a young
mother in the head while she was carrying, and
I can hardly speak about this because it really
upsets me to be honest. They shot her dead in the head while she was carrying
her newborn baby because she was affiliated
with one of the drug gangs and there was a
trial thing going on. This was nine o’clock
in the morning on a public street in one of
the most affluent neighborhoods in the city and it just
really broke me, honestly. I am not raising my
children in this city so now we’re looking for
a house outside the city. – So you’re on your way out. As the representative of all
Jewish people in Sweden– – Please, they would like that at all.
(Henrik laughs) – I bet you secretly they would. Maybe they wouldn’t want– – Who knows, there’s–
– neighbors to know. But there’s only
what, about 7,000 Jews left in Sweden, is that right? – Maybe eight, I don’t know. It fluctuates nowadays. – Yeah, but can you sort of
explain what’s happening? – But Malmo used to have
a vibrant Jewish community of around 3,000 Jews.
– My best friend was a Jew. – For a hundred years and by now there’s probably
maybe 300 Jews left. They’ve all left Malmo
in the last few yeas. They go either to
Stockholm if they’re young or if they can to America
or Canada or Israel. So they’ve evacuated
the city pretty much and it has gone so far that
two private individuals donated 40 million
of their own money to the Jewish
congregation so that they can manage security fort
the 300 individuals left just for the coming 10 years. – One of them was
Dan Olofsson, right? – That you have interviewed. – He was on my show.
– I know. – And I’m hoping to get
him on your show as well. – Yes, but we will talk
about different subjects. You talked about
entrepreneurship and I will talk about– – Oh he’s a massive
entrepreneur. – Yeah, he is.
– A super talented guy. – Well you’d have to
be to donate 20 million out of your own pocket to found Sweden’s first private militia which is basically
what it will become. – Can you explain sort of,
so you were talking about kinda gang violence
and that sorta thing. But can you explain how
that’s sort of related to why Jews would be
getting out specifically? – Absolutely.
– ‘Cause now we’re seeing this sort of all over Europe and– – No problem at all. So we’ve had a huge
influx of immigration from poor Middle Eastern
and North African countries where state
anti-Semitism is part of everyday life growing up. So they come to us and
they’re still anti-Semites and the socialists of Sweden,
being on Hitler’s side until the end of the World War and never dealing with
that have been, you know, it’s a low simmering
sort of thing that they never dealt with. And they have an alliance and they don’t care
if the Jews are forced out of the city. That’s just, yeah?
– We need to mention that the government of,
well the Social Democrats who’ve been ruling
for a long time, they are actively
siding with Palestine in the Middle Eastern question. – Yep.
– And you know, the historical,
this goes way back but it has something to do with Israel being in
cahoots with America and America’s the
great Satan so then because if you’re a socialist being oppressed is a currency. The Palestinians are
the more oppressed so they side with them. But we have the
youth organization of the Social Democratic Party, and I’ll send you
a video of this so you can see it for yourself. When they demonstrate,
like on the 1st of May they have like a
socialist holiday where they celebrate
I don’t know, whatever socialists celebrate. – Potato day? (laughs) Whadda socialists celebrate? – No, we have 1st of May is
International Workers’ Day. They celebrate
being poor as well. (Dave laughs)
(Aron laughs) – And they–
– Now they will hate me more. – They sang, and
this is on video, the last time the
demonstration– – They always sing that song.
– Walks through the city. – It just got caught on tape? (Henrik sings in
foreign language) – I think you can pick out
a couple words right there. – Yeah.
– It means, celebrate, celebrate, celebrate
Palestine and crush Zionism. And this is the Socialist
Youth Organization people. These are middle
class Swedish people and to me that’s an outrage. It’s an outrage. They never speak about this. – No, and the former
strong man of Malmo, the Social Democratic
leader Ilmar Reepalu he had, I mean anti-Semitism. He has been accused of
being an anti-Semite for decades now, but he always
denied it and by now they can’t deny it because
there are no Jews left, so. – Yeah.
– Yeah. – Can you guys
explain a little bit about how the
immigration issue arose? That basically this all
started just in the last really seven years,
something like that. That a pretty much
homogenous society for better or worse,
decided I think but correct me if I’m wrong, I think probably
with good intentions by people that weren’t
thinking that much to bring in a ton of people. How many immigrants roughly have come in over the last– – Well–
– Half decade or so? – You can take this one I think. – If you take it over a decade, the numbers are always changing because they’re playing
around with them so it depends on how you
kind of calculate it. But it is a bit over
a million people. – Okay, so roughly a
10th of the population came in, let’s say
in the last decade from these countries. What do you think
the leaders thought exactly was gonna happen? Let’s say well-intentioned. But do you think maybe I’m
giving them too much credit? – No, let’s do the
well-intentioned because I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.
– Yeah, yeah. – I think they were hoping
for a multi-cultural nirvana with, you know, kebabs
and some belly dancing and that everyone else–
– And a lotta smoked fish. You guys are killin’ it
(Henrik laughs) in the smoked fish
game by the way. – We do have it.
– I ate some delicious outta that. – That is true.
– Yeah. – But other than
that, I think the idea is if you live in a culture
that is so homogenous as Sweden is, you cannot
think outside the box of our own culture. They don’t even perceive
that we have a culture. They probably believe
they will become Swedes very quickly when they realize how right a good we are.
– Yes, they will become– – Turns out didn’t happen.
– Yeah. – Yeah, so if we
were not to give them the benefit of the
doubt, because I also, I try not to go to
people’s motives and I think the road
to hell is paved with good intentions and I
think a lot of these people think they’re doing
the right thing. But let’s go to the
non-good motive part. (Henrik laughs)
Because I think you just wrote a book about it.
– Yes. – I mean, what do you
think these people thought they were doing? Or whadda you think they thought was going to happen? Just when you change
demographics that much, a 10th of a population is
a huge, huge, huge amount. – Well I think they wanted to, so the Social Democrat
came into power. They actually lifted
up the working class to a much better living standard and the idea was as
soon as we get them up to middle class
living standards they will become true
Communists and understand that they need to devote
everything to the struggle. What happened in
reality was that they were perfectly fine with
their flat screen TVs. They wanted more flat screen
TVs and longer vacation time. They didn’t want to join
a Communist revolution. They became, in essence,
well our equivalent of Republicans I suppose. So they needed new
voters in a sense. And they invoked,
and then they took in a lot of people into
the most over-regulated labor market in the
world and these people second generation and third
generation immigrants, they’re not getting
into the system, they’re keeping them
for the ballots. They want their votes and
they keep them on subsidies and some of these kids
they see that the system is rigged against them
and they have no choice. Of course they will
become gangsters or go off and fight
for ISIS after a while. Not all of them, obviously. – I think it’s
important at this point to remember that the
people that came in, you know, those individuals it’s not their fault
inherently, you know? – Yeah, they were invited. – Well that’s why I asked
about the intentions and good or bad, of the
people that brought them in. Not these people specifically. – I’d like to think, you
know, crowds always go crazy. But individuals are much
more reasonable, you know? And somebody who’s
fleeing a war, I have the deepest
sympathy, yes of course. I would do the same thing. But it is irresponsible
if you have a so regulated labor market and you take in more
people than you can help. That is like you’re
throwing a party that goes haywire on Facebook. Everyone’s invited.
(Aron laughs) But you know, I have
drinks for 12 people. – What did they think
that people were gonna do? Like what kinda
jobs did they think people were gonna have? Or did they immediately
say, “You’re taken care of “for a year”, you know? We hear these stories out of Germany where–
– Well the government wanted to start a camel
farm in Gothenburg. – Well that was one
experiment for some and that’s a, yeah,
that was crazy. – That actually sounds like satire, but–
– And sort of racist. – Yeah.
– But, “No, we can’t “give you a proper job but
we’ll give you some subsidies. “Start a camel farm, you
should be good at that. “And also, we have plenty
of camels in Sweden.” No we don’t. We have reindeer.
– So truly, people come in and as you said they’re
often fleeing war. You have sympathies
with all these people. The government then
says, “Here’s some stuff. “But you can’t have
it forever” although they sort of do have it forever. But not just the,
“Can’t have it forever” it’s a limited amount
of stuff, right? “We can’t put you” and
then they can turn around and say, “See, we’re also racist “’cause we didn’t make you
millionaires at night one” and the rest of it.
– Exactly. They get a flat, they get a minimum living– – Subsidy.
– Subsidy. – And then they are
expected to vote left and that is what it looks like. If you break down the statistics of different municipalities
and how they vote. I mean in the (speaks in
foreign language) in Malmo was like 70 to 90% voted
for the Social Democrat of the lefts.
– Yes, yes. I mean, you know, we have
the numbers for all of that. But what’s happened
is tragically we have created a
tremendous segregation. – Yeah.
– A new under class if you will, an
immigrant under class, which Sweden never had. And we don’t know
how to deal with it and we’re also
running out of money because we have the most
expensive welfare system in the world and now we’re
trying to deal with it. Nobody knows what to do. – This is a sort of
dangerous question in a way but I think these conversations
always end up here which is, do you
think in a weird way this then breeds racism?
– Yes. – That good-intentioned
people, right, I mean you just
made it very clear. You have no ill-will
towards these people. But then these people
come into these countries, they’re given these things. They demand more, the
politicians use them for votes. And then good people
who are not racist but maybe don’t
have a lotta time to think about all these things suddenly start becoming
kind of racist. It’s just a sad
fact of humanity. – Absolutely, and I
think it goes both ways. I think the Swedes wanted
to invite poor people from the Third World to
come and live in Sweden because they wanted to
feel good themselves. But also they thought,
“Everyone would want “to become Swedish, of course.” But then they get
a lot of immigrants and the immigrants look
at the Swedish society and they’re like, “Eh,
maybe I’m gonna keep “some of my own culture”, yeah? “‘Cause I don’t think
this is so great.” – And if you were to sort of– – And also, if you keep
them out of the system and you never left them in and you stick them in ghettos, of course they will
start to hate you. – And there’s a weird thing
that I think Europe has that I think
America doesn’t have which is that if you were
to assimilate them more, sort of push more of a
Swedish culture on them that would be against Swedish
nature in a bizarre way. Where America, we have
a melting pot here so come here with all
of your traditions and all of those things, but
mix into the fabric of America. Where Europe has more of a
ghettoization of culture. – This I think, the reason
America can do this better is because your country is
founded on the principle of individuality
and individuals. Whereas Sweden is founded
on the idea of collectivism and that makes it really
hard to break the mold. Now I have a good friend,
he’s doing a lotta work with newly arrived African boys and the top question,
this is Mustafa Panshiri, the question he’s most
often asked by these guys is like, “How do I
make Swedish friends? “I don’t know,
they never open up, “I’m never in touch with them.” And at the same
time, this is again, bringing tears to my eyes. They want to work. They want to break
into becoming useful. At the same time Swedes
will be telling you, “Oh no, how you should behave? “No, I couldn’t
possibly tell you “just be yourself.”
– Yeah, yes. – They give nothing away because they don’t understand
being so collectivist. We have a very closed,
very complicated culture and if we want to invite
people into our culture we need to start, you know,
“Here we do it this way. “This is” you know, but that
is considered almost racist. Certainly socially
aggressive to tell people that, “Well this is how
we do things around here.” – We take off our shoes before
we come into someone’s home. That is quite unique.
– Yeah. – Yeah, it’s us
and the Japanese. Although we’re more sloppy than the Japanese I think.
(Dave laughs) – And because this culture of–
– But there are all these unwritten rules,
of course there are. But for the longest
time Swedes denied that because it would
be racist to admit we had our own culture. – Can you guys talk a little bit about how you differentiate from some of the other
Nordic countries? Because as I said, we always
point to the Nordic countries but Sweden is the one
that we really focus on. But it sounds from
what I can tell, and I did visit Denmark
and I visited Finland and a couple other places, Denmark doesn’t seem
to have the problems as much as you guys. – Well they did up until they
had those cartoonist scandals and then they sort of understood
what it was all about. If you can’t criticize
Mohammed that’s basically blasphemy laws and no
modern Western state would stand for that. – I’ve had Flemming Rose
on who obviously you know is the publisher
of the cartoons. And what an absolute
brave person and someone who now has
to live unfortunately with a lifetime of security, who the idea that this
is a racist or a bigot is so patently absurd.
– Yes. – It was a Muslim
author who was trying to find a cartoonist that
sparked the whole idea in the first place.
– Yeah, I know. – And he was trying
to help, I mean it’s– – But I also think culturally
over hundreds of years, Sweden and Denmark they’ve
fought for supremacy in Scandinavia and
they sort of culturally define themselves in
opposition to each other. So Danes are more, they’re
closer to the continent. They’re more vivacious. They like to call
a shovel a shovel, actually in Danish
it’s a spade a spade. But that would be
wrong here I think. And Sweden is completely the
opposite, don’t rock the boat. – Well if you look at this
from a historical perspective I think it’s fair
to say that Sweden was the Nordic super
power in the 1600s. – Yes.
– We’d basically taken over the rest of the
Scandinavian countries and then we kind of gradually
lost control of that. We gave Norway independence
and Denmark broke off. But the languages and the
culture is fairly similar. But Sweden’s attitude
has though remained as the stuck up big brother
that always knows best. I mean, we are a
very arrogant culture if I can say so myself. I think it’s pretty clear
that the Danes for instance, they think we’re stuck up
and we’re just plain wrong and now that we are, you know,
we’ve gone a bad way it’s– – By now proven wrong.
– Right, right. – It is so embarrassing
to admit it. So now it’s like
a situation where “No, I have to maintain
that I’m doing it this way “because it’s too
embarrassing to come out “to say, ‘Okay, that was a
big mistake, I’m sorry.'” You know, the Danes are
putting up border controls against Sweden now because,
– Yeah, towards us. – “We don’t want the
problems you have “with bombs to be
exported into Copenhagen.” – Right, but if you talk
about those problems – Exactly.
– Is there a lotta trouble? – No, the response
when Denmark did that, the response from
Swedish politicians was like, “Oh this is
completely alarmist “but we welcome the Danes
to do what they please.” So they were just saving face. – Yeah.
– But it’s, I mean for Sweden which is one of the most
advanced IT service countries in the world, to have
to deal with the fact that people are saying,
“We have to have “border (chuckles) controls
to you guys because there’s “so much craziness
spilling into our country.” – This analogy that you
mentioned of sort of a Hollywood facade on all this. As I said, it looks too
good on the outside, I really do think is
part of the problem. It looks too good
from the outside. Everyone looks too good
and everyone’s clothes look too neat and new
and pressed and great and everyone looks
sort of too healthy. And I guess that’s not
(Henrik laughs) in every city, but it’s
at least what’s exported. – When we have a far
reaching eugenic programs that took care of that.
(Henrik chuckles) – That’s probably
a whole other show. – That’s when you
get guys like this. Look at the perfection.
(Dave laughs) – Is there anything else
that we didn’t hit on sort of real meat
of all of this? – Has it been an hour already? – It’s basically
been an hour, yeah. – I’m sorry, it’s because
he talks all the time. – It’s a lotta talk. – But I’ve been here before so it’s fine.
– Yeah, yeah, yeah. – No, I think we’re
fine for now, aren’t we? – Yeah.
– Or was it anything else you wanted to–
– No, I was asking you guys because–
– No, I think it was great. – This was as much
of a recap of, well I guess we should
talk a little bit about Ikea or some of your
other (laughs) whatever– – We can talk about he ordered
a drink the other night when we were to dinner
(Dave laughs) and they made him put
it together himself. As revenge for all the
Ikea furniture they bought. – You ordered a what? Like an Irish
coffee or something? – I wanted an Irish
coffee for dessert. – Yeah.
– And it came in parts. – Yeah.
– You know? I got a cup of coffee and what’s in it now,
whiskey or cognac? Baileys, three separate
glasses so I had to build it and you know–
– I could tell the serving staff they
were getting even. – And we were lacking the cream. So just like in Ikea,
always you know, one missing piece.
– Yeah, yeah. – But you did have your
Allen wrench with you and you were able to put it
(Henrik laughs) together very quickly. – We made it work. – It was very impressive. I do have a lot of Ikea here. I’ll give you a tour of my Ikea. You know that in L.A. we have
the world’s biggest Ikea. Did you know that? – No I did not. – It is in Burbank. Maybe we may have to go
there this afternoon. (Aron sighs)
(Henrik laughs) The world’s biggest Ikea. If I went with two Swedes
(Henrik laughs) and had Swedish meatballs.
– Oh they wouldn’t give you the royal treatment, trust me.
– No, nothing? – No, nothing.
– They probably, well with you two I’d probably be– – We’d be kicked out. We’d be kicked out.
– Yeah, yeah, yeah. – Something like that. – It has been a pleasure
chatting with you guys. You know what? Because you are professional
podcast, YouTube hosts I’m gonna let you guys pimp
yourselves out directly to camera, Henrik,
right over there. – Thank you Dave.
– Yeah. – Well if you are interested
in Europe in general, Sweden specifically, you
can check out my channel where I do weekly commentaries
on current issues. I do analysis on economic,
business, finance, that sort of thing, with
a European eye on it. I also do stuff to explain this for an English-speaking
audience. I’m really a businessman
so this more of a vocation than a profession for me. But I think it
would be interesting for me to find an
English-speaking audience. – What’s the name of
your YouTube channel? – My YouTube channel
if you put in HenrikJ you will find my
English-speaking channel. And from there you can
kind of find my Swedish one if you want more content. It’s all subtitled in
English so you can see it. But then you really have
to be a sort of Sweden nerd if you wanna go into
Swedish interior politics. – (laughs) He is a pro, so
I really set you up here. – He is absolutely, yeah I know. – Look into the camera Aron Flam.
– Oh my god. (sighs) My name is Aron Flam. I’m a Swedish comedian
and podcaster. The name of my podcast is
“Deconstructed Criticism”. I have a few
episodes in English. I’ve just finished
a book that I wrote and published myself in Sweden about the situation
the Western world finds itself in today because
of what happened in the past. There will be an English
translation on my webpage, aronflam.com soon
enough, thank you. – Well gentlemen, I
consider us colleagues now. – We are.
– In the world that we exist in, but more importantly
I consider us friends. We had a great time
the other night and I know this is
just the beginning of things we’ll do together. – Yes.
– Follow these guys on Twitter and on YouTube and all those good places and get over to
Sweden and visit them. You’ll take people out Henrik? – Oh yeah, I take good care of my guests, don’t I?
(Dave laughs) – Yes.
– All right, thanks everybody. If you’re looking
for more honest and thoughtful conversations about international issues
instead of non-stop yelling, check out our
international playlist. And if you wanna
watch full interviews on a variety of
topics, check out our full episode playlist. They’re all right over here. And to get notified
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