Hey everybody, thanks so much for
coming out to the Museum of Science. I’d like to first thank Suzi and
Jack Reno for their generosity in creating the Reno
Family Foundation Symposium Series. They have made it possible for
us to highlight cutting edge research and to bring important figures to
the museum like we are doing tonight. Following the formal program, we invite
you to go one floor down with us for a reception with light bites and
a cash bar and of course continuing the conversation. In 1970, when
the Controlled Substances Act was passed, cannabis became officially outlawed for
any use. Marijuana was labeled a Schedule 1 drug,
along with heroin and LSD. Meaning, it has a high potential for
abuse and any use was completely prohibited,
including for medical purposes. Being on the Drug Enforcement Agency’s
list of the most dangerous drugs has made it extremely difficult for researchers in the US to get
permission to study cannabis. It’s a complex plant, with over 100 active
chemical compounds called cannabinoids, and each of these cannabinoid just
might have a different medical benefit. We are really fortunate
that research from medical use is legal and happening in Israel. Tonight we will first hear
from David Dedi Meiri, director of the world’s leading
cannabis lab who has come from Israel to share the most
recent results of his research. Next, Dr. Bonnie Goldstein,
a physician specializing in cannabis medicine will talk about treating
patients with medical marijuana. Patients with cancer,
epilepsy, and autism. And she’ll talk about her hands on
experience over the last ten years. Then, Kara Miller, the beloved host
of Innovation Hub on WGBH Radio, will join Doctors Mary and Goldstein for
a conversation that will further shine a light on the potential
of marijuana’s power compounds. So please join me in giving a warm
welcome to these very special guest. First up David Dedi Meiri.>>[APPLAUSE]>>Hi to everybody.>>Thank you very much for having me here. If I knew that Lisa will say so
high things about me, maybe I will convince my wife to join me. So thank you very much for having me here. I think it’s extremely important event. We are used to living in our bubbles,
and conferences and people that are dealing with these
problems and with this plant. And to open it to new audience,
especially here in Boston, it’s for me as a scientist, Harvard,
MIT, Broad Institute, it’s like the core of the world for
science. And to open it here, it’s for
me a big honor to be here, and to speak. So a few words about myself,
I am a scientist, I am not a physician. I did my degrees in biology,
everything in Tel Aviv University. I did biology as a Bachelor, and then biochemistry as a Masters, and then I have a PhD in Molecular and
plant biology. And then I moved to Toronto
to do a in cancer research, where I did four years working
in Princess Margaret Hospital, which is a hospital for cancer patients,
and I did four years of cancer research. When I came back to Israel, I focus,
I opened my own lab in the Technion, which is the Technology Institute
of Israel. It’s very similar to the MIT here. It’s a technology institute. We don’t have literature. It’s very high and important university. As my wife said,
they did a mistake and took you.>>[LAUGH]
>>As you understand she is very supportive.>>[LAUGH]
>>So I opened my own lab, and I was focusing on how cancer cells
started to migrate, to move. You can see, here,
cancer cells moving on the plate. And usually, cells in our body
don’t have the ability to move. Like skin cells, liver cells,
pancreatic cells, when they are initially, when they
are proliferate they will stop there. But cancer cells, cancer it’s a given
name to hundreds of different diseases. But we put them in the box. We said, we called it the six hallmarks. Every time that we have this one,
two, three, four, five, six we called it a cancer. And one of the last thing that happened
this cell is getting the ability to move to crawl. And then can create metastases. So my focus was how these cells that didn’t know how to move getting
this ability to start to crawl. But one of my major problems was
with myself, as my wife said. That I didn’t felt an expert for cancer. I did four years cancer
researching in there, but before that I did biochemistry and
before that I did plant molecular biology. So my supervisor from my PhD said
that an expert somebody know everything about nothing. And I knew we know bits and
pieces from here and there. So always, in the beginning, I tried to see how I can bring back
plants to my research in order to have some kind of benefits of my friends,
of my colleagues. So after like a year that
I was starting to work, there was a publication by
a Japanese group that showed. That if you put cannabis on breast cancer, it’s blocking the ability to crawl,
to move. And when I saw this publication
because we have Google scholars telling you
somebody quote you work. So they show that the cannabis is
blocking migration in breast cancer, by blocking the part
with it I found in my. And for me, it was perfect. I said, this is amazing. This is plant, sorry for
all the people that cannabis. I didn’t care that it’s cannabis,
it’s a plant. And it’s blocking
the pathway that I found. It’s the perfect match for me. So a little bit about cannabis. Cannabis, it’s a plant.>>And there is hundreds of
different types of cannabis. In my lab only I have over
650 types of cannabis. And I learned quite fast
it’s a known medicine so it’s the ancient plant that
people use as a medicine. Until 1937, more than 100 illnesses
was treated with cannabis. I was in Portland two years ago, in
a conference, and there is an old library, and I went to this library and they opened
a book, a medical book, medicine book from 1920, and there is a whole chapter
of illnesses to treat with cannabis. So it was a known medicine. The Egyptians used it as a medicine. The Indians called it their Holy plant,
because it was used as a medicine. In the Bible, seven times in
the Bible it’s called cannabosin. Sorry about my Hebrew, it is perfect!>>[LAUGH]
>>So [LAUGH]>>So this is a known medicine. So I was quite excited, and I want to start, I didn’t finish
to speak about cannabis, okay? So cannabis is, look like that, usually. But actually, we’re not using the leaves,
we’re using the flowers. On the flowers, there are small hairs,
we call them trichomes. In the base of the trichomes there
are very specific cells that create specific compounds. These compounds called cannabinoids, and this plant can produce
over 100 cannabinoids. I’m familiar with over then 140, actually the accurate
number is 144 different cannabinoid and
every one of them can affect our body. And the reason this cannabinoid
can affect our body so powerfully, it’s because cannabis is very unique
plant that creates cannabinoid. There is just seven plants that can create
cannabinoids, but it’s the only plant that creates this amount of cannabinoids
and this variety of cannabinoids. And this make them very unique. But our body, this is plants and animals, actually accept insects,
all animals can create cannabinoids. We have in our body a system
called the endocanabinoid system. Our body create cannabinoids and they are
like a messenger that deliver messages, between different cells to
tell them to do things. And this machinery,
this system in our body is a extremely important system
that is balancing our body. It’s like homeostatic system
that balance many things. I can give few samples. One of the sample that
they’re always given, they like it is how we feel appetite,
how we feel, how we do to feel hungry. There is two ways to feel hungry
one is coming from our belly and one is coming from our head. So if we are not eating for
two days our intestine is shrinking and it’s signaling up that we need to eat. But how many times we finish huge meal and
then come to dessert. We’re not hungry anymore, right? And we’re still eating it. So the reason it’s because
it comes from here and this is the endocannabinoid
system that’s signaling. Think about the hunter that is
running after a deer for two days. He succeed to hunt it, he put it
on the fire, he’s cooking it, and after a few bites he’s totally full. But the endocannabinoid system
is signaling to keep eating because it’s important to keep eating for
this hunter. For us, most of us suffer from it
these days, we wish to block it. But it was very important system to
balance the appetite and to increase it. And it’s true for the immune system,
when we have an infection, or we have the immune system in hyper
activity, the way to balance it down, one of the ways that our body is doing it,
it’s with this endocannabinoid system. So, this endocannabinoid system is
very important to how we feel pain, how we sleep, how we eat, how the immune
system is working, in our memory. Many many systems,
it’s balancing homeostatic. And the cannabis plant, is mimic this. The cannabinoids from the endocannabinoid. The cannabinoids from the plant
is just doing a bypass. Instead of the body to
create this cannabis, they will bind the receptors on the cells,
and send signaling. So if the endocannabinoid system
is responsible to create appetite, it’s not surprising that smoking
cannabis is increasing appetite. All the stoners know what
they call it munchies right?>>[LAUGH]
>>So you smoke and you can eat the fridge without opening it,
right?>>[LAUGH]
>>But this is, because it’s just doing a bypass. Binding the receptors on the neurons and
creating this appetite. And it’s true for pain, and
true for many many things. So coming back to my lab, when I want to
do a research on cannabis and cancer. I want to ask if cannabis can
use as a anti-cancer drug if it can block the cells to migrate,
if it can block the proliferation, the cells to divide,
if maybe it can kill the cancer cells. So how we are doing it? We are growing the cells in the plate, this is one of my student Duran
growing cells in the lab. And we growing cells, we taking cancer
cells, and we growing them in the plate. This is actually how the plate is look
like, cells in the plate look like that. This is one cell, I’ve marked it for
you here, you see it. And in the middle of the cells,
you can see the nucleus. It’s more condensed, so it’s more black. This is a light microscopy. So these are cells growing in a plate. You see here something like 100 cells, but actually in a plate like that we have
between 3 million to 10 million cells and depend on the types of the cells,
they will be different. So we can grow the cells in the plate, and
then we can take the cannabis to extract the active compounds and put them on
the cells to see how they affect them. So as I told you,
I have many types of cannabis in my lab. And in the beginning I came to one of
my first students I told her Leron, lets take ten types of cancer that
I brought with me from Toronto, pancreatic cancer,
prostate cancer, liver cancer. And let’s take ten different
types of cannabis and see how it’s affecting the cells. So we did it and we took colon cancer,
this is a lower magnification so every dot here it’s a cell. So we took a colon cancer cell and
we took the cannabis, we extract the active compound
that we put on the cells and surprisingly we saw that
all the cells died. We took plant number two, different type
of cannabis we put, and all the cells die. But when we took cannabis type number
three, it didn’t affect the cells at all. And then we took a breast cancer, and
we saw a very similar phenomenon. But when we took prostate cancer,
the first cannabis, the first strain, the extract that we took that
killed the colon cancer and the breast cancer didn’t effect
the prostate cancer at all. Same with the second one, but the third
one that didn’t effect the colon cancer, didn’t effect the breast cancer,
killed the prostate cancer. So we saw a specificity between
the types of the cannabis, and its ability to affect the cancer cells. When we took a normal column cell, not the cancer cells,
we saw that it’s not affecting them. So for me as a scientists you need
to understand I am not a physician, I am not treating patients. I am looking for
how this affecting the cells. What is the mechanism? What is changing in the cells? And when I saw this,
it was very exciting for me. Cuz as a scientist, I’m looking for
two things that are very similar, but something small is different than there
is Different, than I can catch it. And I was quite excited about this result. But the most important result here, is the
amount that we need to put on the cells. So if you’re taking,
there is something we called IC50. What is the amount that you need to put on
the cells in order to kill 50% of them? And every material in the world,
in the end will kill the cells. You put sugar, you put salt,
whatever, okay? But the question,
is it in what we call a window? How we call it, Bonni?>>Therapeutic window.>>Therapeutic window. Okay, I forgot the termination in English. Therapeutic window. So, I took with my nephew, rosemary,
they need to do something for his high school and he came to my lab. We took rosemary and lemongrass, and
we did extraction from the rosemary. And we put on this cells,
on this column cells. In order to kill these cells with
rosemary, we had to put 50mg per, sorry, 50mg for a male on these cells. [INAUDIBLE] the numbers. But the point is,
if you’re doing this extrapolation, how much a person needs
to take rosemary per day? You need to take 60 kilos a day
which is not a therapeutic window. But if I’m doing the same thing with
cannabis, I need 60,000 times less. I need one gram a day. And a few friends from college that
using much more than one gram a day, they’re fine, okay? So we know that it’s a therapeutic window. An average patient in Israel, in Israel
we have 40,000 patients that’s getting cannabis under a physician prescription,
the average per month is 34.5 grams. So it’s more than one gram a day. So this was extremely excited. We asked, what is doing this effect? What is the difference between extract
number two and extract number three? And I went and in asking a little bit, and people told me about the cannabinoids
that are in the plant. But everybody’s talking usually
on two major cannabinoids. One is THC,
cuz this is the major cannabinoids that cause the psychoactive effect,
causing to feel high. And the second one is
CBD that is very famous, it reduce seizures, and
also it’s very high in the plant. So these are the two major cannabinoids,
but when I checked extract number two and extract number three,
they look totally the same by CBD. But as I told you already,
there are hundreds. So this is saying that these
are the two major cannabinoids. But as I told you, there’s not just
two cannabinoids in the plant, there are over 100. And when they started to
learn a little bit more, I learned that there are also compounds,
active compounds in my extract. The terpenes and flavonoids,
altogether over 600 active compounds. So I’m looking just on two. This is the tip of the iceberg. Who said that these two are important, who said these two
are the ones affecting myself. I can tell you for sure they are not. So for half a year,
I hit my head to the wall. I went to Colorado to Los Angeles to
Toronto, I spoke with physicians, I spoke with people,
I’m talking about three years ago it was, Cannabis it’s like a dog year,
every year is like seven. So when I’m talking about 21 years ago.>>[LAUGH]
>>So nobody even understood
what I want from them. What do you mean other compounds? What do you mean other cannabinoids? So after half a year I realize
that I’m in the nerd university, I’m in the right, it’s the MIT. They just by mistake took me. So I went to one of these genius,
Thomas Schlomei, and together, we develop a method to read
all these active compounds. Today, we are not blind anymore, we can see all the active compounds
in cannabis, all these 600s. I can read 144 cannabinoids. I can read over the 120 terpenes, I can
read more than 40 flavonoids and more. So this is from a paper that was published
last week after a year of struggling. And these are 20 different
strengths that I pick from Israel, 20 different cannabinoids plants. And these are the active compounds,
the cannabinoid. This is the THC, one of the famous one,
this is the CBD. But you can see that there are other,
and we call it the heat map. When it’s black, meaning that this
cannabinoid is highly expressed here. When it’s white meaning that
is not expressing here. What I want to show is how much
they are different from each other. How much they don’t look like, and for
me if a patient is taking this one, or taking that one,
it’s a totally different medicine. Different compounds will enter his body,
different compounds will affect him. And since I have just 20 minutes I will
run fast to my results and I skip that. So how we are dealing with that? We can grow the cells
in plate like that but we could also grow them in the cells
that have many wells, many holes. So I can take a pancreatic cancer, grow it
in a plate like that that have 96 wells and use 96 different
types of cannabis inside. And I have this machine in my lab coat,
high throughput screening machine that can take images from
each wheel, as much as they want. Can take up to 1,000 images an hour. So if you put these cells in this machine, it’s can take 24,000 images in a day. And you get good sense of how every treatment that
you did is affecting the cells. But cancer, as I said,
it’s a given name to hundred of different diseases, but also in the same types of
cancer, if we’re talking about breast cancer or prostate cancer,
we have subtypes of this cancer. We have different mutations. So this graph is every two like that,
it’s the same types of cancer. This is melanoma, this is colon cancer. This is prostate cancer. If we look on this, this is colon cancer. What is the percent of cells that died? And every color is a different extract,
it doesn’t matter the graph, what I want to show that in
these types of colon cancer, there was few types of cannabis
that was very effective. On these types of colon cancer none
of the extracts that we tried, and I tried over than 600 different types
of cannabis, none of them affect. So even if I will learn that
this cannabis is good for this prostate cancer is not good for
all types of cancer. So how we can deal with it? What we can do? We can look on very, very specific,
what we call today personal medicine. We look on breast cancer, with
a specific mutation, B or C1 mutation. Even in the B, or C,
there is two types of mutation. And we look on very,
very specific, very narrow. And when I’m looking on that,
I’m taking cannabis, and I am screening in this my method. Okay and now we look on cell variability. So if the bar is low,
the meaning is that more cells die. And these are four
different types of cells. The blue one is breast cells
without mutation and we’ll not go deeper to the types of the mutation
that we just said that this color, this is a gradient of how
aggressive this cancer. The blue one is without mutation,
the yellow one is very aggressive, okay? So I’m starting to screen and you see
these cannabis didn’t affect at all. Until I find one type of
cannabis that in line with the aggressiveness of this mutation. In line with this mutation
when I find it and doing everything that
a scientist need to do. I’m checking it again and I’m checking
with different types of cells that have the same mutation and I’m doing a rescue
to this mutation with a normal protein. Believe me, I’m doing everything
to prove that I see here is true. And when I have it, this would be a PhD or
a post-doctorate student, I will put a student on that. And then we’re taking it to mice model. And we will call this mutation to demise,
and we will treat them. And you see here tumors from
mice that won’t be treated, and tumors from the mice that
was treated for three weeks, how it shrink these tumors, okay? So for one hand, I’m trying to understand
how it’s affect the cancer cell, but the other hand is asking
which compounds are important? I’m having that extracted,
have now 200 compounds. How can I repeat it? How can I give it to a patient and
know that he’s getting the right thing? How can I dose it? It’s very complicated where it’s so
many compounds. So I am asking myself,
my slogan to my students, it doesn’t matter if we’re talking
about Cancer, Epilepsy or Alzheimer. My slogan to my students, I want the minimum compound
that doing the maximum effect. This can be 1, 5, 13, I don’t know. So what are we doing? We’re taking this extract
that have all these compound. And we run it in our machine and
we dissect it, we fractionate it. If there is 100 compounds we will
separate it 25 compounds the first tube, 25 other compounds in the second tube,
third tube, fourth tube, we just fractionate it. And we’re coming back to the cells
after the fractionation and we’re putting these fractions on
the cells or given to the mice. And we see how it’s affecting the red one, it’s the curve of how the whole extract
affect the cells as it’s lowered, meaning it’s killed more cells,
and these are the fraction. You see we find that just one
fraction is doing this effect. So I eliminate 75% of these compounds,
I don’t need them. I stayed with just 25. And then taking these 25 and
now I fractioned them again, 5, 5, 5, and 5, and then coming back to the cells,
until I’m finding the right compounds. And in these types of cancer, we find that
we need three compounds in order to kill the cells when they have
this specific mutation. One of these cannabis don’t
even have a name, 33118B. You can understand that this is done and
detected, right? These names.
>>[LAUGH]>>If it was in Tel Aviv University it’s called the C-1, or the Sun Sign, something
like that, but this is the tech one. So these compounds don’t even have a name,
right? But without it,
if I’m taking these three compounds and putting this on the cells it’s
exactly as good as the whole expert. If I keep on taking one compound
out it’s not working anymore. So I succeed to narrow it down to
three compounds that are important to this action and when I know it now,
I know what to keep in this extract. What the growing need to grow,
what you need to keep, what we need to check before
we give it to the patient. Now, I can those it I can
check it in the blood, I can do whatever I need
to do as a medicine. So this is one way to go. So when my lab had this ability
to analyze all these active components of cannabis,
it’s totally changed the lab. Because every physician,
every clinical trial, every start-up, everyone approaching it said, hey, we just understand that we don’t know
what we are giving to the patient. That we are doing clinical
trials on 1,500 pain patient, but actually you just told me that
they’re getting 70 different medicine. So everybody approaches and
I find myself standing there and picking, different projects that look
to me very interesting. My lab grew very much from five students, I have a 45 student lab today which
deal with many, many aspects. Still the cancer is the major thing but
we’re doing epilepsy research, Alzheimer’s, sleep disorder,
autoimmune disease and other things in everyone of them we have a mice model,
cell models and clinical trials. What I want to show you is another
approach that were taking in order to understand where to start even this
research and this is data based. Well, actually I understood two and
a half years ago, that I have the ability to know from
bottom to top what the patient is getting. As I told you in this way, we have 40,000
patients that getting cannabis for many types of indication,
for epilepsy, Alzheimer, sleep disorder, pain, cancer to
increase appetite, reduce nausea. So these patients getting cannabis under
prescription so I can do follow up. So I said to myself, this is very complicated because in Israel
the patient getting 98 different strains. So actually 98 different medicines. Each one of them have many compounds. And they are getting it, to many
different type of illnesses, actually, 12 different indication. So I said, okay,
we called it a big data mining. And what we suggest, and
we’re doing in the last three years. One, we’re doing a follow-up on every
cannabis that a patient can get in Israel. All these 98 different strains that
a patient get every time that they grow a big batch it’s coming
to my lab as a sample and we’re doing full identification
of all the active compounds. On the other hand we’re doing follow up
on the patient and trying to align this. In the next four minutes that I
have I want to tell you about a small study from this database,
that was on autistic kids. Two years ago, two and a bit,
the Ministry of Health called, meaning another three physician,
Israel is so small, the Ministry of Health is calling you,
you’ll hear it so.>>[LAUGH]
>>So I came there, and we were sitting in a meeting. And there was a discussion if you start
to give to autistic kids cannabis. And the case was we’re talking about very,
very severe autistic kids. Kids that don’t communicate at all,
very violent. Most of them are hospitalized by
force because they are so violent. And the idea was that
there were three kids that started to get cannabis because
they also had seizures. It’s epileptic-like seizures,
and the families came back and said that it’s totally improved,
Many parameters of these autistic kids. So the discussion was if to
start to give the kids, and we started to give them cannabis. So the Minister of Health said I will
allow to give to these kids in two rules. I don’t want to see kids smoking,
and I don’t want to see kids stoned. So in Israel the kids
are getting cannabis with oil. And they get cannabis without THC, very
low amount of THC so they are not stoned. It’s high CBD strength. And we started to follow up on these kids. And this is research that we are just
publishing on these kids and the result was phenomenal. I must say that first of all I was
the only one that was against it in this meeting. I don’t understand how
their brain is working and to give them cannabis sounds to me crazy
but I’m very happy to be wrong here. So we follow up on these kids and
the result was just amazing. We have around 80% success on reducing
aggressiveness on these kids. These kids are not stoned. They are not high, right. But they are much most aggressive
on themself, on the surrounding. Half of the kids that was hospitalized,
after two months was released home, because the hospital said,
we don’t need to keep them here anymore. They are not aggressive, anymore,
really, really amazing results. All these kids were taking
one step up in the stairs. If they never had eye contact,
they started to have eye contact. If they had the eye contact and never
speak, they started to say a few words. There were much concentrated,
they sleep much better. The average of these kids to
wake up in the night was 7.2. 7 times a night, they were waking up. Think about 16 years old,
it’s still 7 times a night waking up. I don’t know how many of you have kids. I have four. Seven times a night, it’s a lot, okay? This average reduced to 1.8, so
most of them sleeping the whole night. This totally changed this family’s life. But what we found out that there is
a big change between males and females. It was working very well on males,
but not on females. Repetitive movements, 48% improvement
in males, just 9 in females. Eye contact, 47% improvement in males,
0 in female. It responds to name,
50% improvement in male, 0 in female. Really, really surprising but
when we look on the strains, we saw it’s huge difference between
the strains that the kids took. There are these strain that all
the kids it took it improve. Many of the most of the parameters of
we checked, we checked 32 different parameters and you see this
every bar is a different strain. So blue is improvement,
green is no change in rent. It’s make it worse and you can see,
there are strains that were very, very good, and
there are strains that were much worse. And when we gave these kids a pure CBD,
it didn’t work at all. So even though it’s the most, it’s
the major cannabinoids in these strains, if you give just CBD it didn’t work. So the story that I want to tell
you started a few months ago. When we started, Israelis,
it’s small community and all these parents have what’s up between
them and everyone is telling that these strains is working the best and also
I’m standing and presenting this data and their parents hear about these strains and
all the kids is starting to move. And to take these strains. The company that produced this strain,
the lucky one, the best one, after one months ran out. They didn’t. They prepare,
they grew a bunch of it and it ran out. Cannabis take three
months to grow it again. So they need another two months
until they have a new crop. So they said, okay, these strains,
we know it’s high CBD, low THC. We will give a similar strain
that we have to these kids and they change it to these strain. On the bottom they don’t
need to change anything. It’s called Highcivity, the same
company that both believe the same. The families don’t even know
that they changed the strain but in that moment in the same day,
we started to get phone calls. We started to get people
coming to the lab. We started to get, it was a crisis. These kids, after 24 hours getting
these twins become very violent again. Everything they got back
from the initial place and even much worse,
one of the parents told me that in order to control the son
he had to break his both arms. One of the kids jump on his mother and
beat her so strong that she had to go to medical care. One kids got out of the window,
cut himself all over. We’re talking about over the 60 calls
in two days of getting worse and worse. But we’re in that position
saying just a moment, in four hours,
we got samples of the other strain. And we understood that even the CBD and the THC are the same, there are many
other cannabinoids that are different. And we were able to screen all the strains
in these that have high CBD and low THC, and to tell the parents which company
have a very similar strain to this one. And again, after 24 hours,
these kids become less violent, and get more communicative, sleep well, which
for me, it’s like a control experiment. This kid didn’t know that we
changed the cannabis for them. And everything,
all the parameter got worse. And when we change it back to
something similar, it’s helped them. And for me, this is the science behind it. I was very skeptical three years ago
when I started to work with cannabis. It was a gimmick for me, and nothing more. I never used cannabis. I didn’t like it when
my friends got stoned. I thought I would have a good publication
as scientist, not more than this. What I learned in the last three years, that this plant have huge potential for
curing many, many illnesses. And we are just starting
to scratch the beginning of understanding these complicate plan. This is my team,
I want to say thank you for few of them. This is Shirley Berman, Dr Shirley Berman
that analyzed all the cannabinoids. This is Dr. which are head of the
hematology in my lab or the immune system. This is Dr.
doing all the epilepsy and Alzheimer. All the neural research. And this is Dr.
Leron Vermon that did all the cancer work. She is the head of the group. And this is amazing group
that doing all this work. Thank you very much.>>[APPLAUSE]
>>Hi everybody, my name is Bonni Goldstein. Deidi is a hard act to follow so I hope
I can engage you the same way he does. He does some amazing work. I am at the other end of the spectrum. I am a cannabis physician
in Los Angeles California. I trained as a pediatric emergency
medicine doctor which I did for 13 years. I found myself extraordinarily burned out,
trying to work at night and be a mom during the day. I took some time off, and I had a friend
who was ill at the time, who asked me about cannabis, and like most physicians,
I knew nothing, completely uninformed. But I decided to do some research for my friend, and
I could not believe what I was reading. This was back in about 2006, 2007. In 2008, I went back into medicine after
taking some time off, because I missed it. But also, I was intrigued by cannabis
medicine after witnessing my friend have tremendous improvement
in the quality of her life. She was not a pothead,
she was not a stoner, she was not a person who was doing
this because of recreational reasons. She was very sick, and
she was losing the battle, and it turned out to be the best
decision she ever made. And I thought, wow, this is some very
interesting science that I didn’t learn in medical school, and I was just curious,
and it intrigued me. And I got a job working in a medical
marijuana practice in Long Beach, and I will tell you that my patients, every
single one of them, knew more than I did. I learned from them, and
I’ve thrown myself into it, and now I’ve been doing this ten years. I run a medical practice called
Canna-Centers Wellness & Education. We have a large office in Los Angeles. However, I was seeing a lot of adults. I still have my adult
patients that I take care of, but I’m now focusing on children because
of the benefits, as you’ve heard, with epilepsy, autism, cancer,
and a lot of other conditions. And my background is in pediatrics,
and that’s where my passion is. I published a book a couple years
ago called Cannabis Revealed, because one of my sick patients said,
every time I come here, I learn so much. But where can I learn this? And I realized there really
wasn’t a physician’s perspective, where you look at the science and combine
it with the clinical experience, and so that’s why I put the book out. Of course, this industry,
the science is changing all the time, it has to be revised. But it’s a good primer
if you’re interested. This is why cannabis, right here. These are my patients. These are all children who
have very serious illness. Both of these little girls up
here I’m gonna talk about, both of them are cancer survivors. This is a little girl who’s fighting
cancer since she’s an infant, and she’s been on cannabis since infancy, and now
she’s gonna be, I think, seven this month. And then all of these other kids are kids
with multiple complex medical conditions. This young man right here
is a major success story. He was going to have brain surgery to have
a piece of his brain taken out that was causing his epilepsy, but
his mom decided to try cannabis, and he’s been seizure-free. He was able to avoid removal
of a piece of his brain. But this is exactly why all of these
kids are being medically supervised. The beauty of cannabis is, believe it or not, don’t believe the brainwashing,
it’s extremely safe. I have yet
to harm anybody with cannabis medicine. And I recall a day back in
the pediatric emergency medicine. I gave a young girl, 16 years old,
she was having a massive migraine, I gave her some medication that just
about induced a heart attack, seriously. We had to check her to see if
she was having a heart attack. I thought I had killed somebody,
and that was terrifying. With cannabis, it’s just incredibly safe. I think all of us have been brainwashed. I was, too, but
you have to remember that it’s a plant. It’s not gonna harm you,
especially if it’s medically supervised. The rationale behind using cannabis. So of course, the endocannabinoid system,
and Deidi touched on it, and I’m gonna mention it as well, is this physiologic
regulatory system that we all have. The mechanism is there, and it just so happens that these compounds in
the plant interact with that mechanism. Why wouldn’t we use the endocannabinoid
system as a target? We also know,
I’ve already mentioned no organ toxicity, an excellent safety profile. We also know, for cancer, and I’m gonna focus on cancer in my talk,
the synergy with chemo and radiation. There are studies that show that
the combination is actually not only, one, protective, but
actually may make the chemo or radiation work better,
kill more cancer cells. Cannabis is tolerated well by most. Here and there, I come across people who
don’t tolerate high doses of cannabis. Sometimes with cancer patients,
I’m giving them very high doses, but the beauty of cannabis, it is flexible. I do have the issues
that Deidi touched on, which is we don’t know
exactly which strains to use. And in California, we’ve got hundreds and
hundreds, or probably thousands of strains by now, and we don’t have
the ability to fingerprint them. However, with the way that we’ve been
treating patients with multiple different preparations to try to hit
on the proper combination, hoping that we get that, we’re giving
patients a fair amount of cannabis. And most of them tolerate it really well,
especially children, you’d be surprised. Quality of life, I mean,
this goes without saying. As doctors, we’re supposed to help people. Sometimes we help people
transition at the end of life, and there’s no reason that they should
not have cannabis at the end of life. I have an uncle who had two
speeds at the end of his life. One was screaming in pain, or
passed out on the opiates, and he didn’t even know his family was there. And it would’ve been nice for him to
have that middle ground where he was comfortable, he wasn’t completely out of
it, and he was able to have pain relief. And then also now, in most states
that are passing cannabis laws, we have quality control, so
you’re able to test the plant. We’re not able to test it the way Deidi’s
lab does, but we are at least able to know much of the cannabinoids that are in it,
and also the terpenes that are in it. So we can at least try to help patients
find what will work for them, and we’re able to maintain consistency. As Deidi mentioned, those kids with
autism were taking a strain that seemed to work very well, and then they
were switched off of that just because they moved from one high
CBD strain to another. Right now what we’re trying to do,
especially in California, is to make sure that the companies that
are making these products realize this is long term, possibly for life,
medication for these families. And that they need to commit to
growing the same strains, and making the oils the same way. Here’s a picture of
the endocannabinoid system. I’m just gonna talk real
quick about what it is. So we already talked about homeostasis. So these are two cells,
neurons, talking to each other. NT is neurotransmitter. What happens is your brain
releases neurotransmitters, GABA, serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine. You’ve heard of these, and what happens
is, when they’re released, the cell that’s receiving them then passes the
message on to the next cell in the line. However, if the neurotransmitter message
is off, it’s sending the wrong message. Usually it’s a neuroexcitation,
it’s too much of a message. What ends up happening is this cell
becomes what we call perturbed, it gets annoyed. The calcium rushes in, which tells
your body to make your own natural, what I call inner cannabis, your
endocannabinoid, the compound that looks just like what’s in the cannabis plant,
which goes backwards. When I went to medical school, I learned
that these cells only talk to each other in one way, and that’s not true. There’s actually a backwards
mechanism that was only just discovered in the late 1980s, early 1990s. But what happens is that the compound
here, the endocannabinoid, sticks on, you see the little triangles,
sticking like a key in a lock, sending the message to turn it down. So for instance, if a brain is firing
with seizures, or an anxiety attack, or nausea from chemotherapy,
what’s happening is that the cell is sending a message
backwards to say turn it down. Okay, and by targeting this receptor, which is called the cannabinoid receptor,
the plant compound can target that, and so you’re kind of doing
what we call an override. You’re just replacing. There are now studies that clearly show
that children with, this is a study out of Stanford in March of this year,
with autism do not make enough of this. Well, if you don’t enough of that, you can never send the message back
to say, get back into balance. And we know now from research that
Illnesses like irritable bowel syndrome, fibromyalgia, migraines,
anxiety attacks, PTSD, all of these kinds of conditions
can all have a root cause of some, what we call endocannabinoid deficiency or
dysfunction. Betty showed this, but
here’s the female flower. I mean, most of us grew up
thinking that’s called the bud. But that’s really the female flower,
and if you look up close, these are the trichomes,
these little antenna-like structures. And then it’s within these trichomes that
the phytocannabinoids are created and those are basically the factories. And these are just five of the many
phytocannabinoids that are found. Now, Dedi talked about this and
showed you the slides, but what we have found is that cannabis can
affect cancer cells directly in four ways, and those four ways include
inhibiting tumor growth, actually telling the cells
to stop growing. They can cause cancer
cells to commit suicide. The fancy word for that is apoptosis. But it does not harm the healthy cells. And what’s happening here often is that
when the THC binds to that cannabinoid receptor which is on the cancer cell,
instead of telling the cell to turn it down, what it’s telling
the cell is to kill itself. So it’s actually directly sending
a cell suicide message to those cells. Dedi mentioned this,
inhibiting metastasis. But also we know that
cannabinoids can stop cells from growing their own blood
vessels that feed themselves. So remember once a tumor is the size,
they say, of the head of a ballpoint pen, the tumor is starting to grow its
own blood vessels to feed itself. And if you can starve that,
now there’s other plants that do this. We know green tea has chemicals in
it that can starve cancer cells. We also know that berries,
strawberries, blueberries, blackberries, also have chemicals in
it that will starve cancer cells. Well, so does the phytocannabinoids,
which will inhibit angiogenesis. And then there’s recent research. And really just in the past few years,
when I first started seeing cancer patients back in 2008, I really worried
that I might be giving them cannabis, which then might make their
chemotherapy ineffective. And the last thing I wanted to do
was to block somebody’s treatment. And now we know that many of
the cannabinoids actually are synergistic, meaning they work together to give
a better effect with chemo and radiation. And here’s just some of
the titles that you’ll see. The effects of cannabidiol and its synergism with bortezomib
in multiple myoloma. Here’s one.
Pharmacological Synergism Between Cannabinoids and Paclitaxel, which is used
for gastric cancer and some other cancers. Here’s one called Jim Cytobean
cannabinoid combination triggers autophagy which is cell death
in pancreatic cancer cells. And then remember that
in the United States, cancer research using cannabis, for anything, is actually still prohibited,
because it is a Schedule 1 drug. You have to jump through DEA, FDA, National Institute of Drug Abuse,
multiple hoops, to be able to do research. I have a colleague out of Colorado,
she finally got approval, after three years, to study Cannabis
in veterans with severe PTSD. And it’s costing $2.2 million to do the
study because of the amount of manpower needed to run it and also to make sure
that nobody gets ahold of the cannabis. But you know you can get it at
the local high school, right? So anyway, in Spain,
there was a study from 2006, I believe, where they actually directly put THC
onto brain tumor cells, but there’s this study that came out last year from a,
it’s actually not even a published study. It’s just a finding, cuz it was
done by a pharmaceutical company. GW Pharmaceutical, you may have heard
about them in the news, they just got a CBD, pure CBD that was just approved for
children with severe epilepsy. It was just approved in June. We just got the DEA
licensing the other day. Its gonna be a Schedule 5 because
it doesn’t have an abuse potential, however, all the rest of CBD
in the country is illegal. So glioblastoma. That is a very nasty cancer,
if you’ve heard of that. You’ve probably heard John McCain
had this, Joe Biden’s son had this. It has dismal, dismal prognosis. And there was a study in mice that showed
that if you gave which is a chemotherapy, along with cannabinoids,
there was synergy. So, this company took 21 patients with
recurrent GBM, and they were either given the chemo alone, or they were given
chemo plus cannabinoid treatment. The patients with the cannabinoids
had an 83% 1 year survival, and the patients who did not had a 53%. This is significant. And probably we will see that
they will probably make some pharmaceutical compound. But where I live, in California, you can get medical cannabis whether
you’re a patient or now recreationally. So I’ve been treating patients
with cannabinoids for quite some time for cancer because
of this science that we have. I treat patients, when they come in
with cancer, many of them are at the end of the road, so it’s very hard to
compare patients that come in. Some have had only one type of chemo, some
have had others and people always ask me, what’s your success rate? And it’s very hard to sort it all out, because it’s not a clinical trial that I’m
doing, it’s just people who have picked, at some point during their cancer journey,
to come into my office. But some patients are only coming in
because they want symptomatic relief. And with symptomatic relief,
you don’t need big doses. Low doses, there’s lot of cannabinoids
to pick from, CBD, THC, THCA, CBDA. There’s CBG,
there’s something called delta A THC now. There’s THCV. We have lots of choices in California,
if you’re able to pick something that will help with nausea, appetite,
anxiety, and sleep. Often times, patients mix different
cannabinoids for different effects. This is their daytime medicine, and then
this is something they take at night so that they can sleep. Some patients take it
prior to going into chemo cuz it will actually prevent the nausea
and vomiting for those patients. I also treat patients in very high doses,
as what we call natural chemotherapy. It is not accepted by most
physicians to be a treatment. We don’t have clinical trials, so I don’t blame doctors for
saying well, why would you do this? Well, because these
patients are in my office. Legally, I’m allowed to do it and
we’ve had some success. If there are benefits,
we talk about maintenance doses. My colleagues and I, who,
the other doctors who do this, if we get ahead of a cancer,
especially someone with this stage 4, and we are able to contain that cancer or get
that patient to get rid of their cancer, we tell them stay on your cannabis. Don’t give it a chance to come back. I recently took care of a little
girl who’s three years old, was sent home on hospice. She was actually sent home to die. She had a mixed leukemia type, but they treated her for one type of leukemia
and it came back as the other type. She got a bone marrow transplant. She was only in remission for three months
when it came back with a vengeance. When she came to me, the parents
had decided no more treatment, but they were gonna give cannabis a chance. We got her into remission
within ten weeks. After 11 months, the parents without
talking to me decided to stop the cannabis oil, and she relapsed. Now I don’t know, there was some
psychosocial stuff going on in the family. I don’t know if it’s expensive
to do this type of treatment. Maybe that’s what happened, I don’t know. But we’ve got her back on cannabis oil and
she’s actually back on chemo, and I’m hoping that the key combination will kill this very aggressive
type of leukemia that she has. But I tell patients you
kind of have to stay on it. It’s not accepted by most physicians. And again the biggest obstacle is that we
have a government that is in the way of our research, and people always call me,
I wanna be involved in your research. I’m not allowed to do research,
I’m not allowed to touch this stuff. Deidi lives in Israel where
the government actually is helping them. Providing them funds,
providing them legality so that Deidi can go pick up cannabis from
a dispensary and bring it to his lab. And study it. I am not allowed to touch it,
I’m not allowed to have it in my office. It’s completely different and
ridiculous if you ask me. Methods of delivery, so patients can
take cannabis many different ways, they work differently in your body,
the different ways you take them. So you can inhale although I recommend
smoking, usually vaporization. There’s under the tongue. Most pediatric patients either
take it under the tongue or ingest it in an oil form
that look like this. There is topical cannabis,
like a balm that you can rub on. I have an uncle who is
92 who had skin cancer. And they wanted to do this
crazy flap surgery procedure. And I was like, no,
we’re gonna put cannabis on it, and the skin cancer’s gone. So I saved him that procedure and
I just didn’t see any reason not to try the nontoxic,
less invasive treatment first. There’s also, I don’t mean to
show everybody Oreos because I don’t think actually those are cannabis
Oreos, but this is the picture I found. But, you can get cannabis in candies, they have these things called instead of
Jolly Ranchers Woolly Ranchers, I mean, there’s all these different
kinds of things out there. But, of course,
everything has a label now. California, it was the Wild West for a
while where we didn’t have regulations but now we have them. Everything’s labeled, you know what’s in
it, you know what the cannabinoids are. Dosing for
edibles has gone down in terms of how many milligrams are allowed in each package,
but the idea is that you have choices. Now, if you’re taking large doses,
which is usually what I treat if I’m treating cancer specifically,
not symptoms, but I’m trying to kill cancer cells, we do
not know how much somebody has to take. And you have to remember, if you eat ten milligrams that does
not mean you absorb ten milligrams. In fact, absorption is very low. So what we do is,
we start with low doses and we titrate up to very high doses
of these different cannabinoids. And the only way to get
those high doses is really to take it under the tongue in
a concentrated oil or to ingest it, for young children who can’t
cooperate with under-the-tongue. I just wanted to show you the different
cannabinoids that are available and this doesn’t even list
some of the other ones. I redacted out the name of the company, cuz I didn’t wanna give
them a free advertisement. But you can see that each one of
these is labeled by what’s in it. So you see it says THC10,
that means 10 milligrams in 1 ml. Here’s THC 50. 50 milligrams in 1 mL, so
depending on your dose, you’re able to get a compound that you can actually measure
out how many milligrams you’re taking. Here’s CBD, THCA, CBDA,
this one it says hybrid one to one, so it’s half THC, half CBD, and
then here’s one that’s a CBD 18 to 1. Remember from all the cannabinoids
there’s really only THC is the one that the plant is vilified for,
for the intoxicating effect. I have patients who have been
cannabis patients for years and have never been high. So there is no reason for anybody to always jump to that conclusion,
you’re a cannabis patient so you’re high. Most of them are not. So this is A.J. A.J.
is a boy I wrote about in my book. He came to me with stage 4 osteosarcoma,
which is bone cancer. It was already stage 4 when
he finally got diagnosed. It was all over, it was in his leg
where the primary tumor was, but it had already spread to his lungs. And usually, stage 4 osteosarcoma
is a very poor prognosis. It was already in his chest and spine. I think he had had 17 surgeries
prior to coming to me. He had two and
a half years of chemotherapy. He was really beat up, this is after. Over 20 tumors in his chest and the reason
actually his family came to me was because he had severe, uncontrollable pain. He was on 12 opiates a day
without any relief whatsoever. And I’m the mom and when he came to see
me, my son was two years younger than him and there was no way I was letting
this family go down without a fight. So I asked them if they were on board. And they said, we’ll do anything
to save our child’s life. And by the way, his mother works for
a big, like, defense company. And she just kinda sat there
like deer in the headlights. I can’t believe I’m in
a cannabis doctor’s office. What am I doing here. But the dad was like,
nope, we’re gonna do this. Oops sorry, he was on also, just by the
way, palliative doses meaning low-dose of Gemcitabine which is one of the compounds
I mentioned in the study with Synergy’s. And they didn’t want to
take the chemo away. The oncologist told me she
wanted to stop the chemo and just let him to go home and die. But his parents did not
want to stop treatment. Anyway, we started high doses of
cannabis oil in April of 2015 and within the first week his fever stopped,
his pain was controlled, he was down to one opiate a day, he had
gained some weight, and he was smiling. The parents were onboard. I gave them a titration schedule, low-dose to get to high-dose over
a period of a couple months. They went faster than any
other of my family’s. And when he had repeat scans in, this
was April 2015, his repeat scans in July of 2015, I got a text message from the mom
saying, You need to call me right away. Which kind of through me for a loop for
a couple hours because I couldn’t call her back and I called her and
she said four scans. Bone, MRI, CT scan,
PET scan all negative for cancer. Over 20 tumors gone. Now I have to tell you I wish I knew,
>>[APPLAUSE]>>I wish I knew the combination what worked for him. Let’s package it up, right? And give it to everybody
with that type of cancer, that type of mutation
as Deidi talks about. And by the way, this is him at Halloween, which he was not supposed
to be around for. So that was very rewarding. He was able to stop
chemo in February 2016. He just turned 20 last week. And he still remains negative. I got a text from the mom
saying he’s negative. He turned 20. We’re having a big celebration. So that’s a great story, but at the same
time not everybody is going to respond. And I think we got lucky, but I also think
that because he was still on that low dose Gemcitabine there was some synergy there
that allowed for these positive results. And then this is a little girl just
to tell you, this is my last slide. Who had what’s called Wilm’s tumor. This is a kidney tumor,
it’s a pediatric type tumor. She had the tumor removed and
she went through chemotherapy, and then a few months later her cancer
relapsed all over her lungs and we started chemo and cannabis. Her mom is a person who does not
really believe in a lot of medicine, especially she said I allowed them to
give my kid chemo and it came back. So she did a lot of other holistic things, bone broth and a ketogenic diet and
some other things. But she became cancer-free, and she was
actually able to stop chemotherapy early, cuz it was a really toxic chemo. And since all the cancer was gone so
early, they felt that they could actually stop. And she also remains cancer-free. Both of these kids, by the way,
still continue to take cannabis. They are both in school. They both have no developmental delays,
in fact, the only problems AJ has is from the surgery and
the chemo that he got for so many years. So she started kindergarten and
she’s just doing great. And then my last slide is I was asked
to talk about what other conditions. And as you can see there are so many. How is it possible that there’s so many conditions that can
be benefited by cannabis? If you think about the cannabinoid
receptor and endocannabinoid system, think about where it is. Studies show the slide
was all over your body. This is why this must be
taught in medical schools. This is why doctors have
to learn about this, because this may be root cause apart
from cancer, this may be root cause. Irritable bowel, migraines,
fibromyalgia, autism, epilepsy. And there’s no reason that here in the
United States, we should be ignoring this. Thank you.>>[APPLAUSE]
>>Bravo amazing work, my god.>>[APPLAUSE]
>>I’d like to now invite Kara Miller to come up and
to converse with these guys, thank you.>>Thanks, I’m glad to be here. I’m glad to talk to two
people who are working in something that I think many
of us know very little about. And that really may change
medicine going forward. So Denny,
let me ask you our first question. You talked about mice models. You showed the tumor in mice. Give me a sense [COUGH] as far as you
can tell of, what’s the time line? What might the timeline be for
getting this sort of, getting what works in terms of substances in of cannabis into treating people?>>So it’s a difficult question. Usually in this type of noise.>>[LAUGH]
>>Usually in this type of research, it’s years on years. It’s 10 years, 15 years,
20 years if you’re lucky. We’re talking about in a different
area which the patient is already getting the medicine. So usually the medicines that the
scientists find is falling on toxicity, which we know that they are not. So whether very good results in leukemia. And I came to the head of the hematology
department in Rambam Hospital. It’s the biggest hospital
near my university. And I spoke with him for two hours,
and I showed him all of the results. And I told him that I want to get blood
samples from the patient that he has with these mutations in
order to treat the blood. Because it’s leukemia you
can take blood samples, treat the blood samples immediately
to see how it’s effect. It’s the closest to a clinical trial. Looked at me and said to me,
but why to do it that way? My patient’s already taking cannabis. Just tell me what strain. I will give them that’s better for me. So we’re in a weird area which actually I have the ability in Israel to treat
the patient already if I want to. And in what I showed you just
now with the autism, we did it. We did it with epilepsy. We find that one strain worked
much better on the mice. I gave a call to the head of
the four biggest hospital there. The neuropediatrician, and the head
of the neuropediatrician department in the four hospitals, we had coffee. I know them, we’re friends,
we’re sitting, I show them the results. And day after that,
the kids started to get these strains, so we’re-
>>So you already administered
this to kids in hospitals.>>I’m not a physician and I’m not
administer it, it’s not clinical trials, but these kids are getting cannabis. And except me, all call it cannabis. On the prescription, in Israel,
it’s written cannabis, and the amount, 30 gram cannabis. Nobody cares if it’s called Scooby Doo or
Mickey Mouse, these are real names, okay? So if I have the ability to come to
the physician and say, hey, look, Scooby Doo is working much better,
this is the pathway in the mice. They block the receptors here,
it’s blocking this cancer and said, okay, I give, I don’t care what he’s getting
on the bottle it’s written the same. So we’re in a weird area
from the real road, the real path,
we’re talking about a few years.>>Okay.>>In practice, we’re doing it every day.>>So it sounds like you’re taking
a shortcut, so it’s possible, right? A little bit of a shortcut from
the normal way that trials are done.>>Right, so first of all in Israel
the shortcut is in the system. So I don’t like to say it usually,
but I have a license to kill. I have a license in Israel to do almost
whatever I want in cannabis, okay?>>[LAUGH]
>>Good.>>And so
it’s the opposite from the State. I know the Minister of Health. I’ve been sitting with them in the. I have his phone. Things are going very fast. If I will find something in my lab
that I think is very important, I can take it directly to clinical trials,
I guess, in three, four days. And in few months to have the results and
to get it to the patients. So it can be very, very fast. I’m very, very careful about that. I’m not a physician. I don’t know the complexity and
the mixture between other things and I’m very, very,
very concerned about me crossing the line. I’m trying to be, okay,
this is the result, hey bunny, look, this is the result. You had seven tough years in college
learning medicine in medicine school. Take it and
do whatever you think with the patient. I think it must be
the physician’s call in the end. I can give the result. But answering your first question, the conservative road is long,
I think, in that field, we have shortcuts that can be very
fast in the important result.>>So let me ask you a related question. As you kind of mentioned,
and alluded to, we have, in this country at least,
a kind of divide between some states. Such as Colorado and the federal
government, where especially in the last couple of years
Attorney General Sessions has said no, I really am at odds with the kinds of
decisions that the states are making. So I guess my question to you is, is stuff
that’s happening in other countries, is that of help to you in
trying to figure out okay, how do I administer doses,
to whom, what strains? Or do you feel like the legal
hindrances here are still epic.>>I think it’s both, so-
>>Okay.>>There is no question that
Denny’s research is helping us. If we know that, let’s say,
pure CBD actually makes kids worse. I have people that come in all the time,
say, I don’t want any THC in
my child’s medicine. What they are missing is that we’re
not giving them THC, remember, we’re undoing a lot of the brainwashing. That all of us went through. This is bad for you, it’s gonna
make you brain damaged and so on. Remember the fried egg,
this is your egg on, your brain on drugs.>>[LAUGH]
>>I mean, think about that message. I mean we have to undo that. Deddi and I are trying to undo, [LAUGH]
commercials that we all witnessed for years and years and years. But I think that his research is helping
in that, let’s say for cancer, I don’t have the ability, like he has, to look
at the full fingerprint of the strain. But if we know that some THCA and CBDA, two of the compounds that are in
cannabis that are in the raw plant, maybe mixed with some THCA and some
other turpine, is what they’re seeing. Then what I do is I start combining
different products to say, well at least if I can get this product in and
this product in and another product in and a patient’s taking three different things,
we may hit on the proper combination. It’s not perfect science by any means. And it’s terrible that that’s
how I have to practice medicine. But at the same time,
that’s where we are in the United States.>>And it sounds like the US will
lag in some ways, in terms of making the breakthroughs,
if laws are more relaxed in other places.>>Right now, as Lisa mentioned
at the beginning of the program, cannabis is a Schedule I, all compounds
in cannabis, even the CBD that you can now go buy in a natural food store,
is still considered a Schedule I drug. Which means it has no medicinal value. Is that true? No. It has high addiction potential,
is that true? No. And it has high abuse potential and
it lacks safety. We know none of that is true, so we are
living under these ridiculous impositions. I mean I will tell you that I think
alcohol and tobacco fit those categories, right, but cannabis doesn’t. And so we are, unfortunately I’m not
allowed to take ten patients and say I wanna give these ten patients
this same strain to see what happens. I am not allowed to do
that in the United States. So when people, I get approached
all the time to do research but I’m not allowed to. I’m a licensed physician and
I’m not allowed to do that. So until we get it off the Schedule I,
we are stuck where we are.>>This is kind of a question for
both of you, cuz I know you both speak at conferences,
speak to physicians. You, Bonnie,
mentioned when you were in med school, nobody talked about cannabis,
I think really there was not. And then it was your own research that
initially took you down the path to where you are now in knowing a lot about it. What do you feel like is, this does not
have to just be in the US cuz I know you both speak around the world. What is the sort of
receptivity of doctors like right now in terms of they see your
research, they may see other research. Are they interested, open,
learning about this in med school now?>>So first of all, I think we’re,
and this is answering your question to Bonnie before, we are exactly on
the edge of the things starting to change. The research that been done in
the last few years, not just by me, by many scientist, is starting to
have impact and starting to learn. And I think in the next two
years people like Bonnie will start to use this data on patients. And this is changing. Physician are learn how to treat by books, they are going step by step,
and this is the way to treat. I’m teaching in the medicine school,
and I know it’s a way of thinking. It’s totally different from a scientist,
they’re doing the opposite. But physician want you to tell
them what to do in the situation. And if you tell them, look,
I don’t know, there are many compound, there are many that, try this. No, no, no, this I don’t want. I prefer something more dangerous,
but I know the results, okay. And if we don’t know the results,
they don’t like it. When we are improving this ability
of knowing the results and knowing the coincidence and knowing the safety,
then the physician are much more open. When I show my results,
usually when I have a meeting in hospitals with physicians, and
have it at least once a week. I’m going to the department,
I have all the physician sitting there, always the first joke is,
did you brought samples?>>[LAUGH]
>>Everybody’s very funny.>>[LAUGH]
>>And then where I skip talking and then there is the moment that
I feel that I have them. So this always the moment in
the data that they see that, okay, in this accuracy, in this data,
I’m willing to go with you. I’m willing to do this with you,
I’m willing to take the chance. In Israel at least it totally changed. I think in the State, it’s still
a little bit behind with physician. I think because of the recreational
side of that that many countries have also recreational and medicine. Is it the medicine? Is it fun? How a medicine can be fun,
right, it’s a problem. But more from-
>>Well and also that’s what all
the debates are about, right. The debates are so much centered
around the recreational aspect of it, that I think the medical side-
>>Right, so in Israel, in Germany, in Australia, in many countries they don’t have it
if they go just on the medical route. In the States it’s a little bit behind. But looking from side on the state,
they’re always not involved, not involved, want involved,
and then conquered. Iraq, whatever.>>[LAUGH]
>>So it will be the same.>>[APPLAUSE]
>>Okay.>>They will be not involved,
not involved, and then, Stanford, Harvard, MIT will take over, and then I’m done.>>Okay.
>>[LAUGH]>>[LAUGH] Bonnie, what do you find? I mean you are a physician yourself, but
what do you find amongst your colleagues?>>So well what I’ll first say is all my physician colleagues thought I was
crazy when I first started doing this. Of course they’re all interested now. So I’ve been doing this for ten years. And it’s been an interesting ten years
in that I really was a pariah at the beginning of this and
now I have doctors coming to shadow me cuz they wanna learn,
they wanna hear about it. And Deidi’s perfectly right. Many of them say,
well what’s the dose for migraine? Well for whose migraine? And is the person comfortable
with a little bit of THC or they’re not comfortable? Which one do they respond to? I’m a very detailed, controlled,
I’m a Virgo, if anybody knows Virgos.>>[LAUGH]
>>It’s impossible, I mean you just don’t
wanna live like a Virgo. But it’s a-
>>[LAUGH]>>But I had to kinda give that up in order to be a good cannabis doctor. There has to be freedom to try. This is not a pharmaceutical,
this is a plant with hundreds and hundreds of compounds. And there’s a famous story
of Dr Maschelum from Israel back in the 1960s when he
was doing research on cannabis. He’s the one who discovered THC as
the intoxicating compound, he named it. He went on to be critical in finding
the cannabinoid receptor and then finding the endo cannabinoid. His research, he’s amazing man. And there’s a story, and correct me if I’m
wrong, where he had everybody over to his house and he gave them all cannabis just
to see how people react differently. And one guy is giggling and
one guy doesn’t feel it and one guy’s hiding behind the couch and one
guy’s in the kitchen eating everything. People respond differently. And so what I tell people is,
who’s brain are you putting it into? Right?
Do not do, we all know people who had a certain
kind of cancer and survived and somebody else that had that same cancer
and died, maybe got the same treatment. It is as simple as understanding
that we are different in every way that we respond to things,
that we metabolize, absorb and respond. So a lot of times people look at me like
I’m crazy because there are some kids in California who cannot afford high
doses of the high CBD, low THC. And these are teenagers,
they weight 200 pounds. Now I have a family that has two full
time bodyguards in their house to protect the mom from the teenage boy
because he’s so violent. And what worked for him is THC. Why, well it turns out that as I
mentioned the study from Stanford, likely his brain doesn’t
make enough cannabis. His brain is always moving forward
with no feedback to say dial it down. And so he takes some THC and
the mom says we sit and have dinner. And he’s fine. He’s not intoxicated. He actually sits there and enjoys dinner. He’s pleasant to be around. Why do we judge that? Why would we judge? That’s just chemistry. It’s nothing to be afraid of. So we have to undue a lot of
that brainwashing in doctors. And I wanna say one thing, doctors are still taught that
cannabis is a drug of abuse. Now, it can be abused, but so can a lot
of other drugs that we prescribe. As evidenced by our opioid epidemic. So, I think we have to stop looking at-
>>[APPLAUSE]>>The drug being bad and what we have to focus on is education. Including my colleagues the physicians,
so that they can understand this, and they can understand that even if
somebody overdoses on cannabis, nothing bad is gonna happen, and again going back
to toxicity, it’s extraordinarily safe. I feel very comfortable that I have
not harmed anybody with cannabis, and if someone calls me as says, Ooh I took
too much, and I got really paranoid and it goes away and they’re fine
the next day and there’s no damage. They’re not in the lab having to get
blood work to make sure that we didn’t do something to their liver or
their kidneys.>>One final quick question that I
want both of you take a crack at. I feel like we could easily go on
another half hour but it’s this. If we all met back here in 10 years, can
you give me a sense of where you think, of course this is a guess, but where
do you think the science is gonna be. Do you think this is gonna
be a mainstream muse? I mean, you put up, I think as
the last slide, all these things.>>Conditions?
>>Epilepsy, yeah, autism was discussed, obviously cancer. But this huge range,
I don’t know who wants to take that first. But where do you think if we were
to meet back here in 10 years?>>I’m gonna give a very simple answer. I think I would like if
I could have my way. Someone walks in, we’ve got their
genetics of their condition, of their endocannabinoid system,
basically you have your profile and I’m able to look at cannabis and see a starting place to match which
cannabinoids might match what condition. And of course, ten years from now,
I think that that’s doable cuz we are kind of on the cutting
edge of that, I think, right now.>>So first of all, I think nobody
will enter and nobody will meet. Everything is through the iPhones and
these kind of things, right?>>[LAUGH]
>>You came here to Israel and we’ve got iPhones.>>So second, I think this
field is just in the beginning, and I give this example,
I think it’s a bubble. I’m sorry to be always I’m the bad guy. It’s a bubble and I think 30% of what people
are saying about this plant is true. But 30% is huge. Okay, and
this is a revolution in medicine. It won’t be state, like a plant that you
smoke, and your tincture of three drops. It would be medicine. Maybe as a plant, maybe as an oil,
but much more accurate. We will learn how to give it. We will learn which indication. And I think part of the indication
are not really true. Part of them we will discover
new indications that it can fit. There will be people
that it will fit to them. People that will not fit to them and
I think we will treat it more accurately. There is two sides of this plant. One is the recreational
side that had a revolution. Maybe it will be like alcohol when you
can use it, drive or not drive, whatever. And for the medicine side, there is no
doubt that you can’t take the wheel back. You can’t take autistic
kids that never speak, was very violent, and
was hospitalized for years. Now he’s back home, speaking few words,
the whole family’s changing. Now, we’ll take it from here. You can’t do it,
people will burn the hospital. We need to understand it if it
tried to have 200 seizures a day. And I know this child that have five
years old, has 200 seizures a day. That’s crazy, 200 seizures a day, tried all the medicines that we have
to give and nothing helped him. Getting cannabis and he’s seizure free. There is no way to take it from him,
so it’s here to stay. And we need to learn how to use it better,
how to treat our patients better. And I think, by time it will go better and
better and better and better. And I think, all the medicine is
going to personal and medicine, understanding that people are different,
and will have a different genetic,
different mutation, different varieties. And it’s all going to there,
it’s not just the cannabis, and the cannabis will go there,
too, I believe. And I think it will be a shelf medicine
for many, many, many illnesses. When I was out of the army 20 years ago,
half of my friends opened a start up for computer scientist,
that was the bubble of the computers and the internet,
they all grab $3 million from America, have 3 good years,
they travelling in India. And something like that. And this company was closed. So this was the bubble of the Internet, that the computers will remember it if
you are around 40 or something like that. So that was totally bubble but
we can’t say that Internet and computers are not right, okay? If something is bubble and
there is a lot of noise about it, it’s not saying that the core is not real
and that’s what I think cannabis is today, it’s the Internet and
computers were 20 years ago. It will develop to a place that
it will part of our lives, but very different what we see today, okay? I was just going to say I feel like I have
learned so much, I hope you did too Dede. Thank you so much.>>[APPLAUSE]>>Thank you everyone. Thank you.>>[APPLAUSE]
>>Dr Goldstein flew in from California for this. Dede came from Israel for this. Kara came across the river for this. [LAUGH] Please give them a warm hand.>>[APPLAUSE]
>>Really amazing evening, and congratulations to both of you for
amazing work. And much thanks from all of us. Thank you so much for coming out,
and we hope to see you again.