– Hello everybody, and welcome
to Tales From the Closet! (thunder rumbles) Hell yeah, I like that. I’m Ally Beardsley, your host. This morning I woke up and
it was a slow morning for me. I’m here with three lovely guests. Let’s just, a little bit about me. (chuckling softly) It is episode 17, this podcast. I felt very proud this morning. I stepped out of bed and
immediately onto my laptop which was on the ground. And I was thinking about this podcast ’cause I’m so excited to
meet these three people. (Sammi giggling) Is this a good top? Who knows, TBD. (laughs) It just feels like just the
other day we started this and already we’re seventeen eps in. So thank you to everyone
who has talked to me, who has reached out and DM’d, people who have submitted questions. For those of you who don’t know, we have an anonymous survey online that you can submit any question you want. If you are in the closet,
it’s completely anonymous. So have no fear. But yeah, we’ll get to
those questions later. First off, let’s meet
our gorgeous panel today. Who are you? How do you identify? What do you like? What’s something you’ve
made that you’re proud of? – Do I start?
– Yup, please. – Okay.
(Ally giggles) Hi, I’m Bully Fae Collins. I don’t really mind any pronouns but people usually say he and him. And what was the last thing? – How do you, what have you
made that you’re proud of? – Oh. I make performance. And I made a show called
Plight Notions With Shandy that I think was really good. – That’s amazing. (laughs) Wait, when was that? – I toured with it in the wintertime. – Oh. – Yeah. – That’s so fun.
– Yeah, no doubt. – Plight Notions With Sandy? – Plight Notions With Shandy. – Shandy! Oh my God, I love that. Well, thank you, hi. Welcome to the show. Welcome to the program. I decided I’m gonna switch and
start calling this a program. Viewer supported program, anyways. Hi, who are you? – Hi, thanks for having me on the program. (Ally giggles) I’m Sammi Cohen. I identify as she/her. – Cool. – And what’s the next one? What did, what have I made that I’m proud of?
– Yeah, that you’re proud of. – I’ve made a lot of
things here at CollegeHumor that I’m really proud of. – Ooh! – And I wrote a parody to a Lizzo song
called Dogs, this week – Yes!
– that I’m pretty proud of. – Great. – Sounds like something
Lizzo would approve of. – Yeah. I honestly hope that I make her proud. (Ally laughing) – I really hope to get on her radar. – Really, really. It’s gonna just. – Awesome, and lastly. – Hi, I’m Rhys Ernst and
I use he/him pronouns. I identify as a Libra. (Ally laughs) I guess an Angelino for the time being. And other things. And I am proud of this
new movie I just made called, “Adam,” that’s
coming out in theaters. I think actually by the
time this comes out, this podcast is airing, I think
it’ll be almost in theaters. – Ow!
– So please check it out. – Cool! I’m very excited to see “Adam.” – Me too.
– I’m hoping to see it this weekend. – Yeah! – Yeah, thank you so much all three of you for being on the show three total sweeties. – Thanks for inviting us. (Ally laughs) No problem, Bully, so polite. Usually we start off
with, so how did you come out of the closet? What did that look like for
the three of you individually? You want me to start with you? – Okay, we’re gonna start with me. (guests laughing loudly) It happened really rapidly
by accident for me. And I was 15. So it was pretty early
compared to a lot of people I think.
– Mm-hm. – My mom asked me, which was great. ‘Cause my aunt had been
telling her I was gay since I was two. – Wow. – Which of course most people were like, “That’s so fucked up, what
are you talking about?” (Ally giggles) This person is two years old. But like you know, also it
was a very open door policy for me in the closet. Just like constantly shouting from inside, you know?
– Yeah. (laughs) – And like opening windows all the time. – Uh-huh, peeking out. – Yeah, I mean like, I’m in here. (everyone laughs) I’m in here, are you ready for me? I’m waiting. Anyway, so my mom asked
me because I started going to those GSA
meetings at high school. And she went and picked me up once, and then just like looked
around and was like, all these people are faggots. (Ally laughs) And then I think she
kind of like panicked. And so in the car on the
way home she was like, “Oh are you gay?” – Was I panicked, was it like that? – She was really nervous. – Wow.
– Yeah she was very nervous. And then I was like, “Yeah.” (scoffs) (Ally laughs) Because I was like in this with my mom I was less scared. ‘Cause she was just
not as scary as my dad. – Oh yeah. – Who was like, just somebody I didn’t really understand yet. Because I was like such a fem kid. Like now we’re really good friends. But, I feel like that was
the person who I was like, I don’t know what’s gonna happen. – Oh, is your dad like
pretty mask I guess, to binary?
– Yeah, for sure. Now he’s changed a lot,
you know like you get older and you’re estrogen levels, jump.
– Oh yeah that’s so interesting.
– And then he’s like also become really religious. So, he’s really like zen about it. Everything has just
become a little bit more fluid for him.
– Mm-hm. – But, the way I came
out to him was fucked up, ’cause it was a total accident. Because I just wanted to show him this scary photo I took on the bus
of a baby doll in the window. (girls laughing) And I was on my MySpace profile. So I was like, I’ll just show it to him on my MySpace profile. It says I’m gay in the middle of my MySpace profile!
– On MySpace you had listed your orientation.
– Yes! And it just says, I’m gay. (Ally laughs loudly) Right next to the photo
that I was showing him being like, look at this
cool photo I took, Dad. – Oh my god!
– Isn’t this cool? And he’s like, “What is that?” And I remember this like Deerhoof song was playing in the
background that I had that just like automatically played when I opened up the page. – Oh my god. – And still to this day when
I hear the Deerhoof song, it like brings me back to that moment. – Oh my god! Do you think he thought of it? ‘Cause you know a lot of parents are like, “Well if you left your journal out, “you wanted me to read it.” Or you know what I mean? They kind of read intention into this? Do you think he was like, that
was Bully coming out to me. – I wonder. We’ve never really discussed that. We’ve actually never
talked about that moment, which is really crazy. – That’s so funny. – Because I feel like I don’t like having
conversations with my parents about gay stuff. Not because it’s, just because you know it always comes down to the same thing of
them like reassuring me that they love me. (laughs) (Ally laughs) Because they’re like very Christian people who live in a very hetero,
free market Christianity world. So I feel like they know that
I feel really alienated there. – Yeah, but that’s still- – And I appreciate that that
they reassure me, it’s lovely. But I’m also like, we don’t have to dwell. – I have the same thing. It is pretty othering
when someone has to like really double down on telling
you that they love you. ‘Cause it’s like, why would you even have to
say, you know what I mean? It’s like someone saying I’m
not gonna read your diary when you go take a shower. And you’re like, why did you even say? Now you’ve put that thought
(guest laugh) into my head. When they’re like, “We
really do love you.” And it’s very like, in spite of. – Yeah, and I get it. I really don’t even, I don’t, there’s other things that
are way more othering to me. They can say that to me
as much as they want. It’s just that, the things that they don’t
have as much language for, that I feel like I’m on another level. I try and be a listener. And then speak in a way
that they can hear me? – Okay.
– ‘Cause I just don’t need them, I’m like you
guys lived your own lives, I don’t need you to
completely understand me, and where I come from. ‘Cause there’s no way that you can, because of the life that you’ve had. – That’s a really positive outlook on it. Like you have like meeting grounds and you’re like, that’s fine. – It’s still hard, like
I still speak my mind. I don’t like, let them make me feel
like shit about stuff. There’s still a level of
humility for me where I’m like, you can’t know about trans politics and other all kinds of stuff,
like gender fluidity, and what it is really
like to be a homosexual. (Ally laughs) And about like gay sex. They ask a lot of what would be considered very ignorant questions, but
from a place of sincerity. – Yeah, sincere ignorance, which is a different kind
of ignorance I would say. – Yeah, it’s not like offensive like, “So which one of you
is the girl, tell me.” You know what I mean.
– (laughing) Yeah, yeah, yeah. – You know, but they
have asked that question. (everyone laughs) – Here we go! (laughs) – Starting it off strong. – Starting off strong. I fully identify with that. My parents are both really, really just, so talking to them is, it’s so sweet. There’s still like a really sweetness and obviously a lot of love there. But sometimes you’re like, here we go. Here we go, my dad was
like, “There’s a girl ‘in a lot of photos with you lately.” That’s the most direct
conversation we can have. And I’m like, “Yeah.” And he always picks the wrong person. It’s never someone I’m actually dating. I’m like, “Yeah, that’s
my coworker.” (laughs) – You’re like that’s my therapist. – That’s my therapist, I’m always taking photos with my therapist.
(everyone laughs) Have you guys ever taken a
photo with your therapist? – I wish.
– No. – Sammi how did you come out? – So late in my life. – [Ally] Oo! – What’s funny is my… So not in high school did I come out, but when I was in high
school, I sat my sister down to kind of have a serious
conversation with her, and she, everyone else
knew or was on to I was gay way before I came out. – [Ally] Interesting. – I had never had like crushes on anyone. I sat one of my sisters down, I was like, “I got to talk
to you about something.” And it was no big deal,
nothing super serious. I started talking to her and she went, “Ah, I thought you were
gonna tell me you were gay.” And I was like, “oh um,” and panicked. (Ally laughs)
“No!” And then cut to, I don’t
know 10 years later. When I came out I first came out to two of my closest friends who
I felt really safe with, who I lived with at the time. I had been in a straight
relationship, I was still. Anyway I came out to them and it was, they congratulated me like
I had won the lottery. – Yes!
– Oh my god. – And it was just so,
and then it gave me a lot of confidence to go out into the world, and end the relationship I was
in, a straight relationship. And then I came out to my
family all individually, really casually. I think I sort of like
blacked out for a month, while I was kind of like,
okay I just want to do this. – [Ally] Yeah, just a
disassociation month, where you’re like
– Kind of. – [Ally] get through it, yeah! – And I think a part of
me, yeah, they all assumed, ’cause when I did come out I called my mom and she works, I’m from
L.A., she works here. And I’ll sometimes just
stop by and say hi. And I was like, “Hey
are you at the office?” And she was, and I was like,
“I’m gonna come by and say hi.” And I popped in, I was
there for like five minutes. I sat down, she was like, “Hey.” She calls me Boo, “Everything okay?” And I was like, “Yeah, I
think I want to talk to you “about something, I think I’m not straight “and I like women.” And I knew, but it was my ease into it. – [Ally] Oh definitely
it’s always like I think. – I think, always, always. – [Ally] The soft coming out. (laughs) – And then she said,
and then she pointed out for years I’ve been like,
“Well everyone’s a little gay.” I was softly kind of setting them up. (Ally laughs)
We’re all gay. Everyone’s a little gay. (guests laughing) And so, I came out to her, just at work. And her reaction like my sister’s like, I’d say 90% of my friends
and family they were like, “Hm, that makes sense,”
or “Oh yeah we figured.” And I was like, “Oh okay, great. – Wow.
– “See you later.” That was it. – That’s great! – Then there was more, I think
more in-depth conversations. But I think I was just
anticipating a lot more confusion and so many things that everyone was real, at first real chill about it. And my dad passed away, so
I never got to tell him. – Aw! – Which is kind of, and that I wonder, I don’t know how he would have taken it. – [Ally] Oh, that’s interesting. – Yeah and that’s led to some
interesting conversations with my family. I don’t think he would
have been, I think he would have been fine, but way more difficult. He’s like conservative police officer. – [Bully] My dad’s in law enforcement too. – It’s a type of mentality. – Yeah.
(laughter) – [Bully] It’s a conditioning. – It’s a conditioning for sure. But yeah, that was kind of it. – That’s really nice that it was so chill. We talk a lot on this podcast
about how nice it would be to just be able to walk into the kitchen where you’re parents are and be like, “Oh by the way I’m gay,” and they’re like, “Oh okay we’ll note it.” And it’s like not a deal. You know the fact that
it’s a deal makes it, it’s just so unfair. So that sounds truly lovely. – Yeah, it really was not, I think there was like more in depth. The person I was dating at
the time was the hardest one. – [Ally] Oh, yeah I can imagine. – That was the hardest one. And came with like on
my end I felt so guilty, and felt so bad for, I
think months, a year, almost a year after. But yeah, luckily, most people
were real chill about it. – That’s great, were you
able to talk to the person and be like, “I’m gay,” or was it like, were you not quite sure yet? – I was sure, I was sure
for such a long time. I was sure for years. I mean I’ve known for,
I’ve known since I had that conversation with
my sister in high school. And I wasn’t telling her then, but I’d known for so
long that I had crushes on my friends in middle school. Yeah I did tell the guy that I’d been in a very long term relationship with. – [Bully] And he was a beard? – Yup. (laughs) – He said, “I have a
beard, but what’s a beard?” (Ally laughs) And he was very sweet, but
definitely took it the hardest understandably so.
– Yeah, yeah. – Well it’s so confusing ’cause it’s like there is love there. There are so many different kinds of love. – Well we were best friends
and he interpreted one way and I felt really safe
in that relationship. – Totally yeah. – ‘Cause I was so scared
of a lot of things that I didn’t need to be, but they
feel scary no matter what. – Yes! It’s harrowing in the closet. You’re truly just like on a razor’s edge for like years of your life. I came out later also, but when I did it
like a cis dude in college, we broke up, but I was too
afraid to tell him why. It was just like, “I’m
not attracted to you.” And that’s why we broke up. And that’s like way worse! It’s like it’s so brutal
(guests laughing) to be, “I’m just not attracted to you.” Or any cis man, so it’s
like oh interesting. – It’s come to my attention
that you’re hideous. (everyone laughs)
– Exactly! – Because you disgust me so thoroughly. We can no longer continue this. – All of a sudden I’m
not attracted to you. I look back on that and
I’m like interesting. I probably should have
been 100 times more honest than I was in that moment. – Have you ever had a
conversation with him since? Or was it just– – So we had one super strange
conversation a year later that was 15 minutes long. (laughs) And I still didn’t come out. But it sounded like he knew, because we had a lot of mutual friends, so I think someone told him. But yeah, I was just like, mm. I don’t know when you’re
in like the church, I was in like a very religious school, where you literally sign
a contract to go there saying you won’t have sex, or do drugs, or have a gay thought. You sign literally a contract, like with a quill. (laughs)
– Oh Shit. In your blood. – So like the Harry Potter
thing it like carves into your flesh as you write it. – Have like a dark mark. Yeah, so I think just everything
was so upside down there. I wasn’t about to come out to him because I was just deep in the closet. The closet was multiple rooms long. (Sammi laughs) Yeah, Rhys, what about you? – Well. I think there was a multiple
room closet for me too. There’s sort of a gauntlet of those kind of folding closet doors, and the other kind of closet door. If I go back to when I was three. So I’m trans, so I came out a couple times in a couple different ways. I think in a way I sort of
came out when I was three, although it wasn’t really officially. But I was like, I’m a guy, 100%. This was the ’80s and so
being like a trans kid wasn’t really a thing, but it is now. Actually looking back on
my youth and childhood it’s like I was trans-Urkel like fully, just like 100%.
– Oh my god. – And like flip sunglasses,
rat tail bowl cut, plastic fedora, like I was full on (Ally laughs)
trans-Urkel as a kid. And weirdly people were like, well. I got bullied but it was kind of later, it was actually kind of
fine weirdly in my school. I don’t know what was going
on, it was like a bizarre– – [Bully] Where you were? – This was in there like
Pomona, outside of L.A. – Oh no way I’m from Leland Park. – Really, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was there ’til I was 10,
then I moved to North Carolina. And then things got a little bit rockier, right around like puberty, too so that was it.
– Oh a perfect time. Same for me, we moved
right when puberty hit, and right after I bought an
entire flames themed wardrobe. – Nice.
– Everything I bought had flames on it.
– Ready to go. – I switched schools,
and boom I was in it. (crosstalk)
I had a bowl cut, and a flames themes wardrobe,
and I was dead trans. – Were you also a freshman
– No one like me. – at an arts school? – No, no.
(everyone laughs) I was a closeted teen in Temecula. – Oh my god, wow. Yeah, we should had like
a photo shoot at the time. (Ally laughs)
Looked really slick. But then when I was like
13, I had a sort of very like my so-called lifestyle
argument with my mom. And I was, “No, that’s
gonna happen, ’cause, ’cause “I’m not straight!”
(Ally laughs) And so there was that kind of thing. So yeah I was actually
kind of out as queer when I was 13, which was interesting. – Wow!
– I was in middle school. Also kind of weird, and
kind of the only one. And I actually dropped out of high school ’cause of bullying and stuff like that. – No way! Wait, can I ask where in North Carolina? – I was in Chapel Hill,
which is actually kind of a progressive town.
– I was gonna say. – But this is North
Carolina in the ’90s though, and it was still like, it was
actually really old school. It was old school homophobic
back in the ’90s, for sure. It just was. – Have you ever read the
book, “Dude, You’re a Fag?” – No. – It is so good.
– Really? – It is this book. It’s kind of like a psychology. They go in and study a school that matches the demographics of all the high schools, the median high school in the ’90s. – Oh wow.
– Wow. – So like socioeconomically, everything. And they interview all the kids on gender and sexuality.
– Oh my god. – It is an insane read. – [Rhys] In the ’90s. – It’s in the ’90s. – I would love to, what’s it called again? – [Ally] It’s “Dude, You’re a Fag.” – I got to read that, that’s just amazing.
– It’s on PDF online. Yeah it’s really good. And reading that is like,
that’s what happened. And a lot of stuff I had suppressed. I was like, oh that
definitely happened to me, and I don’t even consider
that part of my story. – Totally, no it was rough, it was weird. – But then what happened? And then I finally, so speaking
of being a late bloomer. I didn’t transition until I was 25. So in a way, you know what I mean? So there was another coming out. So it was kind of like, goddam it, we’re doing this again,
and again and again. – Yeah. (laughs) – But it was okay. So, my parents are pretty,
actually I’m very lucky my parents have been very cool. I keep on pushing them
into new challenges, (guests laugh)
you know what I mean? Like over and over. And they’re like, all right
we’re old pros at this now. I actually think I
totally believe that thing that children are here
to teach our parents. You know what I mean? – [Ally] You get the children you need. – Yeah totally, I totally think so. We’re really close and stuff. I mean when I came out as trans when I 25. Which I mean I was
trans-Urkel so it wasn’t really like a total shock.
(Ally laughs) But also taking the
steps was like, but, but, you know a little bit. I really felt it was my responsibility to kind of walk my parents through it, and really have long
conversations with them, like make them talk about it, actually. Because I was like, it’s
taken me a really long time to deal with this my
self and figure it out and be comfortable. So, I can only imagine it
would take somebody else some time too, – Beautiful.
– and that’s okay. – [Ally] Yeah, that’s a really
great way to deal with it. – My mom was like, “I have
to tell my hairdresser “that we use a different pronoun.” Like she had to kind of
come out in her own way and it was hard, you
know I totally respect that that was actually a legit journey. You know?
– Yeah. – And now my folks and
family are like very, my nuclear family’s very like, out and proud allies, it’s very sweet. So it’s been a real road. I think I’m done coming out. (guests laugh) I’ve done LGB and T, seriously so like– – I’m on the rise from Dante’s inferno back to the surface. – Yeah exactly.
(crosstalk) All seven layers.
– Like a rainbow phoenix. Oh god that’s a terrible image. (guests laughing) – I feel like I’m from
a very deluxe closet, like a very expensive,
rotating, multi-roomed closet. – That’s so seductive. – Like a hot sex swing closet. Every five years I have
something new to tell my mom that will gut her.
– Yeah. – And she’s same thing with
rolling with the punches. I think she also has a really
inspiring cute pride about it. And talks about it whenever
she can with her friends which is cute, she really considers it. She’s still very religious. Like her ministry to talk to other Christians about this, which I love, ’cause it’s kind of like my mom rocking the boat at church. It’s just like adorable. – That’s awesome.
– And cool. What did it feel like
to come out as trans? What was that like, the journey like? – That was the hard one, for some reason. – [Ally] Yeah. (laughs) – God it took me forever, too. I mean not really. I was like, in college people
were like, you’re trans. It’s kind of like your odds a little bit. (Ally laughs)
The college version, the college years version of that. And I was like, “Oh maybe.” But I was sort of, yeah I
was pretty nervy about it for a long time. – [Ally] What kind of
college did you go to? – I went to a liberal arts college. Hampshire College in Massachusetts. – Oh, yeah, yeah, cool.
– Pretty out there and cool in these ways I would say. There was a lot of like,
“Oh let’s talk about gender “and trans this and queer,
and blah, blah, blah,” happening at that time,
and I’m sure still there. So it was around. Yeah I don’t know, you know what? It’s called old school shame, – Yeah.
– really, for real, it is. It was stuck, actually. I feel like, obviously
the world around me, but also I got it from TV too. I remember the first, ’cause I was like trans-Urkel child, and my parents were like,
“Yeah okay you’re a tomboy “we don’t really care,”
they didn’t really care. ‘Cause they didn’t read it as trans, they were just like, whatever. And then I saw this talk show, one of those bad ’90s
talk show in the ’90s. And they had a trans man on there. And they just were like,
oh my god it was the most, it was like so rough, it was so sad, so rough.
– I bet. – And just this poor man. And he was being interrogated to nothing. It makes me so upset to think about it. I was like nine and I
saw that and I was like, “Oh shit, that’s me.” – It’s crazy that that’s
all it takes, too. Is some popular media that’s
celebrated on a big scale and then you’re like,
this is the lens that everyone sees through. – Well there’s such a vacuum there, because there’s no information
about trans people. So then when you get one
visual you’re like, boom. That took up the entire space. I remember realizing so trans
women would cause anger, or like fear in people. But then like trans men were ridiculed. It was like oh you, dick envy
or whatever kind of like, look at this fucking
fake man, or whatever. On stuff like that growing
up, and I was just like that’s a nightmare. And it just sets you
back millennia, you know? But it’s beautiful to think of now. I guess there really hasn’t been… When I think of Will and
Grace or Modern Family, it’s like, cool all of
America gets the gay thing. Or you know what I mean, has
some positive association with gay culture. But there hasn’t really
been something like that for trans people yet. Of a sitcom with a trans man character. I guess (mumbles), what am I thinking? – Like Transparent. – Definitely Transparent, yeah. – Which I worked on for four seasons. – Now way!
– Yeah! – Oh my god, fun!
– I was a producer, yeah. – Oh that is so cool.
– Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. – Yeah, definitely Transparent. I know my mom is obsessed with that show. – I mean although, of
course in retro you know, in hindsight there was you know, whatever. We don’t have to go down that road. (Ally laughs)
It was no perfect in certain respects, although. And when that happened there
was nothing, there was zero. – Yes!
– Mm-hm. – It was like throwing
something in to the void. – Absolutely.
– I mean there was Laverne on Orange is the New Black. There was a couple thing
that all started around the same time.
– Yes. – But before that year there was nothing. – You know I’m kind of
thinking though is of a squeaky clean kind of ABC Family show. – Like network comedy.
– Like god, I want a Trojan horse, like – I know.
– a lovable trans couple into like an ABC Family show. – No, it’s true, we need that. – Truly one day. – I mean there’s Pose now. – Yeah.
– But that, yeah. – [Ally] Gorgeous. – But something like a Will and Grace that I think reaches, – the masses.
– Reaches the center of our lovely country. (laughs) – I think it does give. It’s interesting ’cause
the more we see it, and the more comfortable. I was a huge tomboy. My mom, it terrified my
mom when I was younger. – [Ally] Wow. – She pierced my ears so that people would know I was a girl. – [Ally] EW! There we go yuck! – And like was real scared
of, so loving and supportive of me, but was, I remember
I was seven, eight. But she was just afraid of the world and what people would. Because like you getting that lens into, like seeing that on TV, and
how the world’s gonna react. That was I think and I think like– – [Ally] The protective parents. – Oh yeah that generation. I think less so with us, but still. And I think it’s so important to, – [Alley] Totally. to spread a different message
and to be more receptive. – Yeah!
– People have this fear that’s just–
– It’s hard for sure when your parents thing
that they’re saving you, but you’re like, really what would save me is being allowed to be
who I am. (chuckles) – They may, yeah.
– Mm. – Whether that’s hard or not. But it is true. I mean it sounds like bullying
was a nightmare for you. – Yeah, I mean I didn’t have
it as bad as a lot of people, but certainly it just, it
was part of the package. I do think that I’m a
director, I work in media and have created a lot of things that to do with trans this or position.
– Yes! – Trying to actually
specific do crossover stuff. That’s sort of in a little Trojan horse, a little funny, en genre or something. So it’s actually reaching
beyond the choir, and kind of like splaying
this thing open a little bit. Because of experiences like
the one I just mentioned. – Totally, yeah it’s
kind of like when you get through the fire, you kind
of look back and try to yank people out quicker, you know. (guests laughing)
Is a violent. (crosstalk and laughter) But yeah we do, I mean with this podcast we definitely have a lot of
people who have reached out and been like I am in the closet, it’s so great to listen to this. I bet it’s nice for people to see these
media that you’re creating. And feel seen and feel like
some hope for the future. Well this is perfect, ’cause
we’re already talking about it. But our haunted word of today is late bloomer! Usually the sound effect
(laughter drowns out speech) – Wait, did I spoiler the haunted word? – No it doesn’t matter. – I was cued to tease it up, teed it up. – You were teasing it out. – I was teasing it up.
(Ally laughs) – Getting a beehive.
– Like my hair. – Amy Winehouse look.
(crosstalk and laughter) – We haven’t talked about this. For those of you not watching, Rhys has been teasing his hair the entire episode.
– I have, it’s true. It’s getting bigger and bigger. (everyone laughs) – We got late bloomer. What does that word make
you think of, those words? And do you identify as one? I already heard from you Sammi. – Yeah. Entirely so. I think about coming out
late knowing for so long, being so scared. – Do you feel like regret for it? Do you understand why it happened? What’s going on? – I think I let myself feel the regret. But yeah, I definitely feel like I wish I had just loved
myself a little bit more earlier on in my life to be able to, to have not been as scared and to just love myself a little bit more. – Totally. – ‘Cause I didn’t come out until I was 26. – Yeah.
– I was 26? Yeah, and had really
just, I just felt a lot of shame during that process,
’cause I knew for so long. And then once I did, guilt
about not doing it sooner. You know, I also understood it. – [Ally] Totally yeah. – I felt like I was
living through a filter. I don’t think I was doing
anything truthful for myself until so late in life. Now I feel good being me. But I just felt frozen for a long time. – Totally, yes that’s exactly
how I would explain it too. – Also it feels like
expansive when you come out. And you’re like, this
is what life feels like? Like, holy shit. – Yeah I was curious at
what you guys felt about. Because I feel like my, I came out pretty young,
but then the way that I, like I don’t feel like
I actually got to be gay until much later. Because of my situation. – Yeah. – Because you’re just
isolated in this world of – Oo.
– like being the only gay person. – Yes, oh that’s so interesting! – And that was kind of
what it felt like for me. You’re either a token or a clown. – Oof! – And those are also
kind of the same token. – (laughs) Yeah. – Two sides of the,
– The clown can be a token. two sides of the same token. – Can the token be a clown? – Yeah.
– Yeah. – So then I didn’t even
really have any gay friends until I was like, maybe 19, and that wasn’t even
the best kind of situation. It’s like once you
really meet your people, and then you’re like, oh my god. God it’s took so long to finally feel like I’m finding a groove
with other queer people. – Yeah.
– Oh yeah. – Yeah that was kind of like
a really turbulent feel– – Was like a moving to a
big city kind of thing? Do you think that’s what helped with it? – Yeah definitely that. Yeah I don’t know. There’s also just a lot of fear regardless of whether you’re out or not, or at least there was for me, when it came to gay relationships, and like sex and dating. I just had a lot of fear. And I had no, because I
didn’t have any mentors, or I didn’t know any other people who were going through the same
thing, I just had no models. So then I would see people that I didn’t know and, you know you don’t
really know how to start. And you don’t really know. Yeah, you don’t really know what to do. – Totally, yeah. – You feel ignorant, and also for me that made me kind of defensive. – The images that we get,
or the messages that we get are so wild. When I first came out I
went straight to the Abby. I when to club culture. (Sammi laughs)
Like I’m gay now, this is what it looks like. And it was the most isolated
I’ve ever felt in my life. Just like sitting there with a beer alone in a booming club, like
and this is life now. It was like ah!
– Right, yeah, totally. – It’s so nice when you
finally meet like sweet, political queers, or you
know people who speak your language and are
having a movie night. Or you know, it’s like
pure sides of the coin. There’s going out, too
if that’s your thing. Finding out that there’s
room for everything. – I feel like my, I didn’t
have any good relationships with other, like sexual relationships. I have always had really deep, loving relationships with
people that I’m platonic with. And they’re mostly cis women. So it’s this also I’m like that probably has something to do with some fear. That’s still lingering.
– That’s really interesting. – The closet is still hovering. – Mm-hm, yeah.
(Bully laughs) The closet scars are still healing. – Yeah it’s like that, yeah. – That’s so interesting that you say that. The thing about it being really isolating to be the only gay person
for all those years. ‘Cause in my mind I’m like, if I had just come out, it
would have been so great. But it’s like, no. I still would have been
– Kind of not. – in Temcula at a megachurch
as the only gay person with people quietly praying for me. – Totally.
– Nightmare. – And it gives you this perspective of, I had this fuck every single person. For a long time that was
my way of dealing with it. Was just being goth, and fuck everybody! – Yeah, (laughs) yeah, yeah. You went super anti
you had your anti-tour? – Yeah, big time. – I think about high school, too. ‘Cause I had that regret of like, I had the same thing that you were saying. If only I had just come out, it would have been so
much better and easier. The one person I knew that had
come out in high school, ’cause there’s only like
one, I mean so many of us I think are. And a lot of my closest
friends in high school, later in life a lot of us are gay. – Yeah same here.
– Funny enough. And we found each other,
but we were still so scared to tell each other. We dated each other, straight. (Ally laughs) But the two people that were
openly out in high school, there’s definitely bullying, but it’s like your under a microscope
because you are the one person that’s–
– You’re the whole test population.
– Yeah, so I feel like everything they did was
under, and I wanted to hide. So that’s a terrifying– – Yeah, I felt like
people who were closeted, now that I’m older I
look back and I’m like, people who were closeted
were probably like, yikes. – To you?
– Like to me, yeah. I thought about that. Because of the visibility they saw that I had.
– We have a lot of questions like that that come in from viewers. That are wondering why, their aversion to gay stuff is so strong. Because they think that it will out them against their will, if
they show a like for that. – Which I get, it’s not a thing that I’m– – No, but having to experience that. – Yeah.
– Sucks. (laughs) – Oh yeah.
(everyone laughs) – I made a series called This is Me that’s like a web series
of short documentaries on trans people. And there’s one of them, I’m just gonna, I’m not trying to plug
’cause it’s an old project. I mean watch it if you like.
– Oh yeah. (laughs) – So my name plug.
(guests laughing) It came out a couple years ago. But it reminds me of
what we’re talking about, ’cause there’s one episode called. The series is called This is Me, and the episode’s called, and my sisters. And it’s a documentary and
it’s these three trans women who I know IRL, and they’re
sitting around talking about what it means to be seen as quote, unquote, clockable. And the old school thing of like when you’re a trans person,
say you’re a trans person back in the day, you see
another trans person, you ignore the other one. ‘Cause they can out you by association. – Yes, yeah.
– You know what I mean? – So it’s kind of like a safety thing. But then at the same
time, by the same token it led to people not being
able to find community, have friendships, just being invisible. And of course there’s
a thing about survival in certain context. But it is something that’s
like really important to like unpick and look at. And the episode actually ends
up with them talking about how they’re pushing against the idea, and like forging these sisterhoods. You know what I mean?
– Ah, that’s great. – So that’s online if
people want to watch it. – That’s great, yeah! No I love Rex and this
show, this is perfect. I feel that sometimes,
I feel like early on the first trans man that I would be like, have the biggest friend crush on someone. – [Rhys] A squish. – Yeah I would have the biggest squish. (everyone laughs) I’d be squishing on someone so hard. – I just get an image of a wet sponge, being like (makes squish noise). (guests laughing)
– And no one wanted to hang out with me.
(Rhys laughs) ‘Cause I was just like
dumping a wet sponge on their head at the mall. No, but I definitely felt
– I had done that by that. – a strong arm bar, sometimes,
where it would be just be, oh okay dude, then I
guess we won’t be friends. But I do wonder if there was something like that.
– That’s a sad face, though. – Mm?
– That’s a sad face. – Yeah.
– Yeah, that’s a bummer. Okay cool, let’s move on to
the best part of the show in my humble opinion. These are questions submitted by viewers. Some of them say their name and pronouns, some are anonymous, I’ll
just let you guys know when that comes up. Okay, our first question. Can you talk a bit about crushing when you’re in the closet? Handling a crush on a straight person, coping with rejection, and the threat of rejection, et cetera. – Yeah.
(everyone laughs) – Did you ever? – I’ve realized–
– I have a playlist called no more straight girls. – Cool.
(everyone laughs) Does it have like Seven Year Bitch on it, and stuff like that?
(Ally laughs) – Just me like, mm, yeah. – Totally L7, wargasm
(Ally laughs) I remember I joined lots of things and did lots of things that
I was not interested in, just to follow my straight friends around that I had crushes on. – Mm, mm-hm. – And, I don’t regret any of it. – What are we talking, are
we talking track and field, are we talking–
– I did, um, lots of video games, Boy Scouts,
(Ally laughs loudly) rowing, you know like crew.
– Crew, no! – I did crew for like two
years, just because of this boy. – No. – Yeah.
– No. – Who I was best friends with. – [Rhys] Homoerotic crew. – So it was also, crew was incredible.
– Crew is erotic. – It’s very erotic.
– It’s deeply erotic it’s– – You’re just pull like (groans). – And you’re in this like
(Ally laughs) leotards.
– What?! – You’re in leotards, girl. – You’re kidding me? – Do they have little shorts? – They have little shorts, and there’s like the varsity team – What?
– who are just these demi-gods of fitness. – That’s crazy. Honestly what were they doing to us with these uniforms? Volleyball is just like hot little shorts. That’s not okay.
(Sammi laughing) When I was so deep in the closet I’d just go to a volleyball
game and be like, this is too much for
my body, like very cell is like multiplying, I don’t know. (everyone laughs)
– Yeah totally. You’re like this is malignant!
– I’m growing! (laughs) – Uh!
(laughter) – Did you ever confess a love? – No. I was like pretty sure,
because I feel like I started hooking up with, or started sexually
experimenting with boys when I was really young. So usually if there was some
kind of chemistry happening there was both sides were like, “Do you want to play a game?” – (laughs) Yes. – There was something like that happening.
– Yes. – It’s be like, “Truth or Dare?” – Yeah.
– You know. And then you’d be like, um, (Ally laughs)
take off your pants and rub peanut butter all over your chest. (everyone laughs) I dare you! – What a red hairy!
– Yeah. – That peanut was not
gonna be used, or was it? We have so much to talk
about that on this podcast. Just everyone hooking up
– Oh yeah? – at such a young age
literally, except for me. (everyone laughs)
– Yeah! – It’s always such a slap in the face. I did kiss someone once. – We even sometimes would call it practice for adulthood.
– Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. – We would refer to it as if
playing house, or something. But anyway when I got older it was like, that wasn’t happening. – Yeah, I know.
– Like that kind of tacit understanding of secrecy and volleying the, you know, the risk, just wasn’t in the game. Like being in the same
sleeping bag with this boy that I had a crush on. (Ally laughs)
And we’re just having a conversation and I’m
like waiting for the cue, (Ally laughs)
for it to happen. For that moment when we’re both like, so what should we do now? (everyone laughs)
And it just never came. – That is so cute to imagine two boys in a sleeping bag, and one
is like, “This is the night.” – Can you imagine, four
hours we used to do that? And it was absolute torture. – Yeah.
– Yeah. The school I went to was just
so unbelievably religious that the idea that people might be gay wasn’t even on the table. – Yeah, they’re like what’s that? – Gender segregated dorms. You go swimming naked in
the ocean your first night as like a welcome back,
and it was just (laughs) and everyone was dog
piling naked on the beach. (Bully laughs)
– Is no one aware, I am so gay?
(guests laugh) – Also it’s really
interesting that that stuff can’t be viewed through
the lens of eroticism for those people either. – Yeah. – As soon as anyone, even though it is, even though it’s platonic,
it’s still deeply erotic. – Yeah.
– Mm-hm. – Like in a powerful, unifying way that doesn’t have to be penetrative and patriarchal. And we’re like this is sex. – Yeah.
– You know? But I’m like that’s
part of the ritualistic nature of it.
– Yes. – Is that it’s kind of homoerotic. – A lot of religious
stuff is deeply erotic. You’re praying over each
other and like touching. – It’s like that energy,
that good, good energy. – It’s that’s good energy. Any weigh ins on a crush
on a straight person? – I don’t have a personal funny, I don’t have a humorous
personal anecdote unfortunately. (Ally laughs) So I have this movie
coming out called “Adam.” And it’s actually kind of that scenario. So I thought I would just mention – Yeah.
– what that’s about a little bit, ’cause it’s that
but it flipped upside down, backwards, and inside out. And it’s about a 17 year
old dorky teenage boy who lives with his parents, and then goes to live with his cool, older lesbian sister for a
summer in New York City in 2006. And, this guy, his name’s Adam. And he’s following his cool sister around, and going to all these lesbian parties. And he doesn’t really
know what anything is, and is kind of clueless. And then he meets this
amazing person, this girl, and he has this deep crush on her. And then a little later
into their conversation after they’re totally hitting it off, and she’s about to leave, she’s like, “Okay so here’s my number,
but just so you know “I’ve never dated a trans guy before.” And he’s like, “What?” But doesn’t totally know what that means, because he’s totally
like a 17 year old dork – Oh my god.
– cis boy, right? And then she leaves and
he’s like, “Wait, uh,” and then it’s too late to correct her, and he’s caught in this lie that she thinks he’s trans. And so it’s like, it’s kind
of like the trans experience of what, you know what I mean? These stories that we think
of like a trans person in a small town who has
a crush on somebody, and they think that they’re not trans.
– They’re cis. – Exactly.
– Yeah, totally. – It’s that, but flipped. – It’s like “Boys Don’t
Cry,” but fun. (laughs) (crosstalk) – Maybe not exactly, yeah.
(Ally laughs) So Adam’s kind of like he’s
got a crush on this person and he’s trapped in his
own closet, ironically. – Yes.
– You know what I mean? And the whole world is
queer and trans around him. So, that is a scenario that
we explore in the new movie, “Adam.”
– That is so fun. That’s really cool.
– That sounds really good. – In little oasis. – Yeah.
– Majority except for in this like tiny little subculture– – If you call Bushwick in 2006 an Oasis. – And I do.
– Yeah and I do. (everyone laughs) – Oh man. – It’s actually, sorry to interject again. – No. – It’s like a really interesting political inversion that I feel like needs to happen on so many levels in our
country in general right now. That’s why I’m excited
to see it, actually. – Yeah. – Like just left to right
actually this way of, there’s a lot, especially
living in a city when I feel like I definitely
live in a queer bubble. Imagining a religious, Southern person
coming and being in my world. Is a really interesting,
funny thing to see, that we don’t think about. As like them being this
other trapped in our reality. – Yeah. – That I think is really, makes a lot of, it’s really humbling. – Yeah.
– Yeah. – I think it’s really fun too, because if you’re gonna invert the story, it proves that the story is already mass, everyone already understands it. – Right.
– So I think that’s a really fun step for transmedia. – Yeah. – You know it’s like
– You’re right. – we’re there baby. – That’s a good point. It’s kind of funny ’cause it’s like the audience is totally
ahead of the characters, because everybody had just
a totally different level of trans literacy at that time, were sort of stumbling their
way through all this stuff. – Totally, ’06, man. – Oh I was think too about how it’s like, I really like how it really
plays with who’s insider, and who’s the outsider, and really kind of breaks those rules, and questions all that. ‘Cause I’ll talk about outsider audiences meeting straight people. You know what I mean? Whoa my head’s going!
– Yeah, totally. (laughs) – And then even like, well never mind I was
gonna talk about current, was just gonna bring up
some dark current politics. – No, go for it, yeah. – I was thinking about
the other day about how, Adam is like, what is the word I was gonna use? He’s like the minority of this world. He’s not threatened by that. Which is actually, it’s
interesting if you look at what’s happening in culture right now. You know what I’m mean?
– Yes. – Adam actually leaned,
he makes some mistakes, don’t get me wrong. It’s about him making mistakes
and then learning from it. But he actually leans into
it, like really learns, like really respects this community. And is totally changed
by it in this really positive profound way. – Cool.
– That’s so great. – I really think about that
in terms of what’s going on right now politically. You know what I mean? – That’s such a good example, which is very rare.
– Totally. – I feel like even the narratives we have that are good and radical, are so often like “Boy’s Don’t Cry.” Where it’s this disaster. Or there’s this,
– Tragedy. – Yeah this tragedy, and
I’m like kind of tired of seeing gay tragedies. – Yeah, yeah. – Where it’s just the
disaster of being gay. – Yeah, absolutely. It’s like that is a story to be told. And it has been. Hey what else happens when you’re trans, or not trans?
– I know. I want to see a world in which it’s cool to be queer and trans. – Yeah, totally.
– You know? A 17 year old straight boy is like, Hey, hey guys wait, how do I do that? – Oh I just wish I was trans! – Yeah, yeah, yeah.
– Yeah totally. – That’s cool.
– Oh god. All right, our next question. Let me see, hi Ally and friends, my name is Adriana, she/her and I’m bi. I just graduated college
and plan on becoming a physician assistant. I was wondering if any
of you had any thoughts on how healthcare providers can offer a safe and healthy space for
all genders and sexualities. It makes me so sad to
hear about people avoiding getting the care that they need, because they have had bad experiences, or they fear being judged. I want to be able to offer
that space for people. Also I love this podcast,
it made me feel great about being bi with mostly
straight friends, heart. Cool. – We probably all have fucked
up stories about doctors. – Yeah. (laughs) – And things doctors have said to us. I’m sure.
– Yes, definitely. Although, recently I’ve
been going in for Kaiser, I don’t know if I can
say their name, whatever. They’ve had me in on non-binary panels, where I talk to all the doctors. And it’s like a Q&A. It’s literally been the
most beautiful experience. I went in.
– Oh my god. – First it was with the psych department, and it’s all of SoCal. So it’s like people are there for this long ass training seminar. – Like an auditorium? – No smaller, but still like hundreds. – Right, that’s crazy!
– Yeah. Then they get to ask all the questions and be bashful and, how do you this? And then just last week I
went in for endocrinology. ‘Cause so many kids are
transitioning young. And they had so many questions for me. Which I couldn’t answer. I wasn’t even, at seven, boy do I wish I could
have skipped puberty, but no I didn’t. So that’s been really cool. – Wow.
– That’s amazing. – A few hospitals truly trying to get to that literacy point. – Just how to navigate
conversations and how to – Yes.
– give care in a way that’s more caring? – And to meet someone and
be able to ask questions without it being like
everything’s on the line. Like asking the wrong
question to a patient, I could see being really scary. So they brought me in as
the guinea pig (laughs) essentially ’cause I was
like, “Ask whatever.” – Yeah especially if they’re
really young, too sometimes… I’m being a nanny, told
you guys earlier that I was a nanny, but I’m a nanny. – Bully the nanny. – Bully the nanny.
(Ally laughs) it’s not the name I used at, when I worked in public school. The kid that I watch is gender non-conforming, and
is very defiant about gender. It’s very, you know when there’s a question
of like, “What are you,” from kids or adults, it’s very like, pft. – Love it.
– You know like. – Whoa the future!
– You know, yeah. – That makes me giddy. – They’re like, “I don’t care.” – Love it.
– Yes. – But even with them it’s kind of like, he’s not asking the
questions that deeply yet. But also they’ve gone to a
lot of counseling about it, because there has been a lot of pushback from the community. So it’s really good that
in L.A. there’s resources that are trans specific. – Yes. – Where people are like
way ahead of the kid. Because, he also doesn’t really have the kind of know how or language for even what he’s feeling. – Yeah.
– So it’s kind of amazing that for the parents and for
him that this doctor is like, “I know exactly how to
hold space for you.” – Yeah, it was really
shocking like all the, a lot of the endocrinologists
were older and were like, “So I have a family who “their daughter started transitioning.” She doesn’t need hormones yet, but is now dressing in women’s clothes, and just being a little girl now. But they had to take
her out of her school, because the school wasn’t understanding. And then just start her in a new school like here’s your new life. And she’s like four or
five and she’s getting chronic stomach aches, and
they think it’s from anxiety from that whole.
– Oh yeah. – And everyone was like like, “Aw.” It was just like everyone in the room was on the same page, which I loved. I think it’s really
interesting that transition’s happening way younger,
and I think it’s good. – I don’t know, I think my advice for that question too, about going into medicine is, I think it’s such an area of expertise, and you want your doctor to be confident in the medicine and the
care that they’re giving. But I actually think in
this specific regard, being humble is a really good
way of going about caring. Know your stuff medically. But I think being, leveling with someone and just being humble, and not knowing, and wanting to learn from patients. Because what I think you’re
doing is beautiful and amazing. And needs to be done. – Yeah.
– But that would be my advice. If you’re going to, especially
I think nurses have, are taught to care for people. And sometimes with the PAs and doctors it’s much more about the
medicine and the science. So I think just keeping that in mind and caring for people’s
probably what I would. – Yeah, I think so too. You can know everything
about medicine and stuff. But the culture is changing. – Yeah.
– Mm-hm. – So, to be humble enough
to look at all of that is really interesting. I also think a lot of questions came up in these two panels that I’ve done, where kind of the attitude towards
trans or non-binary people was like, it’s never enough. Oh we’ve got one person’s pronouns wrong, and she was really mad. And it’s like, oh let’s pump the brakes, you know it’s like this person is, it’s getting it from all angles. It would be very nice if a
place of healing and health was an oasis for them to feel safe. And literally all you
have to do is put a note on the file of pronouns. Just have that become like
second nature would be cool. – I appreciate the question, though. I feel like we need more people like this, so we applaud you listener. – Yes, definitely. – Thank you.
– Adriana, thank you. Let’s see, I am from a
very homophobic culture where people casually say very
hurtful and offensive things. How did you learn to stand
up for a part of yourself that you felt the need to
hide for most of your life? – I had trouble hiding, so I feel like… – Interesting. – Yeah.
– Yeah. – I really identify
with like Quentin Crisp, somebody who was like,
there was never a closet. (everyone laughs) He’s like, “I became really loud about it, “because there was never really any other, “there’s never really any other option.” But also, it doesn’t make it less scary. Also you don’t want to
put yourself at risk. I understand people who don’t,
I feel like if your life is in danger, or if you feel
like you could get hurt, it makes sense to try and
find the best way to survive. If it’s about social
obligation, personally I’m like, if you’re not living authentically, you get sick in other ways. – Yeah, that’s really interesting. – You’re kind of playing
with fire regardless. The one choice is not
really better than the other at the end of the day. And if you have the choice,
and it truly is your choice, if you check in with
yourself and you’re like, “I could speak up and it would be hard, “and I might get some flack.” And there might be social consequences, but I would survive, and I
wouldn’t be physically harmed, then you should absolutely
do it for that reason. Otherwise you’re kind of
diminishing something that is always going to follow you. And you’re kind of in the
process training yourself to always feel submissive in that way to the people who don’t accept you. – Yeah, that’s great. And I’m curious about what, it’s hard to find your
place in history, I guess. I think reading queer experience, just books that have to deal
with queer people coming out, or knowing your queer history, can sometimes help push you to feel like. If you’re thinking in your own mind, someone would make fun of me, or whatever your worst fear is. – Totally. – Getting perspective
and seeing what other people have come through.
– Yeah look up Marsha P. Johnson. – Who’s that? – She’s the person who’s
famous for throwing the brick at Stonewall. – Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh wow. – And she’s also just an
amazing person, in general. Like her middle initial
stands for pay it no mind. – Wow, cool.
– Mm. – Which is like to me, it’s all good. – Oh, that’s so good! – I love that as a philosophy for life. – Yes!
– And it’s also something that you should think about when you’re asking this question. – Exactly, yeah. – Just like pay it no
mind and speak your truth. – I made a trans history web series. Sorry, I’m like plugging all these things!
– Ah, no wait, its so nice to help you!
– But these are all free! Well Adam is gonna be in theaters, but the other ones are free online, so I’m like, check it out,
what do you got to lose? It’s a series called,
it’s actually for me too, I was like, what is trans history? I don’t know anything,
there’s just a vacuum, what the fuck?
– Mm-hm. – Oh, it turns out it
wasn’t totally a coincidence that that stuff was sort of suppressed. You know what I mean, not recorded. But yeah, I was really
interested in trans history to understand my own, sort of trans patrilineage or whatever. And I made this series
called We’ve Been Around. And it’s wevebeenaroundseries.com. But there’s one on Marsha and Sylvia, – Oh cool.
– called Star. They’re about five minutes long, each. – Oh my god.
– And there all these incredible stories, and
it’s truly every struggle that we’re going through
has happened in the past. It’s actually amazing. – That is incredible.
– It’s crazy. – What a great resource you are. – Well thank you. (everyone laughs)
– Great resource. – Woo hoo!
(guests laughing) And that’s all the time we have today. – Which is your dad game?
(everyone laughs) – No that’s so beautiful, that’s amazing. – That’s awesome. – That actually is all the time we have!
(everyone laughs) Looking down at the clock, honey. – It did fly by. – It really, didn’t I say? God I love this show. Well, you know what, thank
you so much for listening. Those of you at home, if
you have a question for us, please send it in, we’d
love to hear from you. You can do it through the
Instagram, or Discord, or an anonymous survey link that we will put up very shortly. Thank you so much have a
great week everyone, bye!